CD Duplication?

[Mandomax]

Hi folks,
My band finished recording a new CD, and the engineer is almost done mastering it. Time to get it duplicated! Can any of y'all share your stories and recommendations with various CD duplication places? I think we will go with either 500 or 1000 to begin with. Any advice you have on how much art work (sleeve, 2 panel, 4 panel, etc) and what type of packaging would be terrific as well. We are really proud of this, and wanted to do as good a job with the package as we feel we did with the music.
thanks,
Max

[Paul Kotapish]

Congratulations, Mandomax.

First of all, you probably want to get them replicated--not duplicated. Although the terms are sematically similar, the processes differ, and the industry standard is replication. Duplication is just burning a CD--like you would do on your home machine. Replication uses a glass master and results in a little more universally stable and playable unit. Some duplicated CDs have problems with recognition, data dropout, and skipping in some machines such as car CD players. A lot of folks go with duplication, and it's not always a problem, but if you have the choice, go with replication.

Here's an overview of the differences: http://www.mediareplication.com/inde...d=35&Itemid=48

The two big houses are DiscMakers and Oasis, and they offer turnkey service. Just send them the master and whatever artwork you have together and they'll give you a menu of options for the finished product--with prices varying depending on the level of service and the number of units. They do big-run gang printing of the packaging materials so they get great prices on four-color packages and they offer a bunch of bundle deals that include peripheral promo material, too.

http://www.oasiscd.com/

http://www.discmakers.com/

There are ever-increasing numbers of local houses that will provide similar services for small-run projects such as yours. Most of these places do duplication, but a few specialize in small-run replication as well. Depending on where you are located, this might be a good option that will allow you a greater level of interaction over the course of the project. I'm happy to pay a few bucks more per unit as support a local business. That might cost me a bit of profit in the end, but . . . you know. Keep it local.

As for packaging, I like the no-plastic Eco-wallets best, followed by Digipaks, with just a plastic tray. I hope the era of the jewel cases is over. The slimmer, greener alternatives look great, are less hassle than the jewel cases, and take up less space on bursting CD shelves.

Whichever way you go, be sure to have all of your copyright and licensing issues sorted out ahead of time. If it's all original material or public-domain songs, you might be able to get by with a letter stating that. If you have cover versions of licensed material, however, you will need to furnish proof that you have obtained a mechanical license for each cover for the number of units you are manufacturing. The Harry Fox Agency can help you with this.

http://www.harryfox.com/public/Mecha...icenseslic.jsp

It's worth a call right up front to find out what the replication house requires before you find yourself scrambling to acquire licenses at the last minute. There was a much more lax attitude about all of this a few decades back, but most reputable CD businesses are towing the line on the legal requirements these days, which is good for the songwriters and copyright holders.

And if the material is all original, you should go ahead and get the copyright and publishing right issues sorted out ahead of time, too. If a song becomes popular and gets covered, you should have your rights protected.

Good luck!

PK

[jaycat]

Here's my 2 cents, and it may not be worth even that much.

About 10 years ago I made a duo CD. I worked with a singer with a voice like an angel, and since I knew my songs were works of utter genius, I had 1,000 copies duplicated (or replicated, whichever you like). I used a local guy here in Boston and he did a great job. It cost over $1,000 at that time. I designed the cover & insert art myself so that was free.

Well, fast forward 10 years, and I have about 950 of them still in their boxes. I realized early on that marketing was not my thing (even though I did get one call from a well-known L.A. publisher who said (really!) "the contract is in the mail." (still waiting). I did sell about a half dozen copies on CD Baby, gave some away, and of course there's always friends and family.

So I guess what I'm saying is: unless you are committed to marketing and/or have someone to do that for you, you might want to save your money. If I had it to do over, I would have burned the discs myself one at a time, printed out the cover art, and assembled the whole package at home. (I did do my 2d CD that way).

That being said, I fervently wish you great success. But you could always start out via the homemade route, and hey, if they're going like hotcakes, you can always throw your business to Discmakers or one of the others.

[Don Grieser]

If your band is playing out regularly and playing regional festivals, you'll get through 1000 CDs in a year or two (selling maybe 5 a show or so after your CD release party). That was my experience when I was in a band, but that was several years ago. Of course the band broke up after we did a second CD and I've got a couple boxes of those in storage.

I went the short-run duplication route on my Hillbilly Chamber Music CD ordering 100 at a time. You can get a product that looks professionally done (Oasis & Diskmakers offers duplication too now) but in short-run quantities. I thought I'd sell more downloads than CDs on the net, but it ended up being about even.

Wherever you get the CD done, they will have templates you can download to create the artwork. Make sure you use someone to design your artwork who knows how to get a job ready for a printer and understands all the terminology or your CD will be delayed.

Good luck with it and let us know when it's out.

[jaycat]

Oh, PS . . . turns out that as the years go by, your contact info most likely changes. It's a bitch to have the wrong phone # or email address imprinted on many hundreds of CDs.

So I do recommend the short run route, whether you go Don's route, or DIY.

Best, jc.

[Mandomax]

Awesome! Thank you. Y'all rock- just the info I was looking for. It's all original music, with an equal mix between instrumentals and vocals. You guys have any hints to expedite the copywrite process? We have already gotten one album done, and sold out of the first run of 300. Like Don said about his band, we sell about 5 or so every gig, and get the random email asking for one here and there. I think we'll get 500 to begin with. I appreciate the advice about contact info as well. I'll keep you posted.
Best,
Max

[banjoboy]

My band has had two projects replicated and packaged by Crystal Inc in Tennessee. They are great folks and are less expensive than the larger companies like Oasis and Disc Makers. You send them artwork and information about the songs, band, etc. and they put together your package and send you a rough copy for your review. They don't charge a lot extra for putting together your artwork, and may even have some ideas of their own to help you out. We sent pictures of what we wanted for the front and back of the jewel case, but Crystal suggested what we should use for the inside of the the front panel. It was great and professional looking. Some duplication/replication houses charge a lot extra for putting together the artwork aspect of your project...not Crystal. They also deal, as far as I know, a great deal with bluegrass and acoustic music. You can find their ad in any issue of Bluegrass Unlimited. Finally, all places will dangle the carrot in front of you as far as the number of units to order. For slightly more, you can get 500 instead of 300, or 1000 instead of 500. Bear in mind that you will sell some, you will give some out to friends and family, use some for promo purposes (sending to possible gigs), etc. Anyway, good luck. It's all very exciting to get a project together and see it come to fruition.

[jim simpson]

Here's my 2 cents, and it may not be worth even that much.

About 10 years ago I made a duo CD. I worked with a singer with a voice like an angel, and since I knew my songs were works of utter genius, I had 1,000 copies duplicated (or replicated, whichever you like). I used a local guy here in Boston and he did a great job. It cost over $1,000 at that time. I designed the cover & insert art myself so that was free.

Well, fast forward 10 years, and I have about 950 of them still in their boxes. I realized early on that marketing was not my thing (even though I did get one call from a well-known L.A. publisher who said (really!) "the contract is in the mail." (still waiting). I did sell about a half dozen copies on CD Baby, gave some away, and of course there's always friends and family.

So I guess what I'm saying is: unless you are committed to marketing and/or have someone to do that for you, you might want to save your money. If I had it to do over, I would have burned the discs myself one at a time, printed out the cover art, and assembled the whole package at home. (I did do my 2d CD that way).

That being said, I fervently wish you great success. But you could always start out via the homemade route, and hey, if they're going like hotcakes, you can always throw your business to Discmakers or one of the others.

I guess that gives credence to the joke, "this cd is a million seller, I got a million in my celler".

[Paul Kotapish]

Good point, Jaycat, and I absolutely agree that the scope of the project--and the number of CDs you manufacture--should be based on reality. If you play once a month at a local coffeehouse and don't like the hassle of endless marketing research and stuffing mailers with CDs and promo material, you are probably better off just making a few as you go.

But it does all get down how much you want to flog the thing and how many gigs a year you are playing--or are likely to play. If you are doing 60 or more gigs a year, you are likely to get through that initial batch in a reasonable amount of time. And depending on how much you spent on recording, you'll recoup your investment before long, too.

If you really want to promote the thing and have a prayer of a little airplay, you'll need to give away dozens--or even hundreds--of them to all of the compatible DJs--mostly on local NPR affiliates, Pacifica affiliates, or college stations--around the country as well as to all the local media, and all of the music publications that cover acoustic music. You'll also need to send a bunch to potential gig venues, and whatnot. The tangible return on all those freebies can feel kind of slim initially, but it's the only way to get any buzz going about a new project.

And be sure to get them listed with CD Baby, who will also get the digital versions on iTunes for you. Getting things placed with music stores--online and bricks-and-mortar--is tricky, but it's worth finding at least a few local outlets for you stuff, too. For that, it's worthwhile getting a few point-of-sales counter displays. The manufacturers can set you up with those.

One addendum on the one-off approach. At least one very well-known artist in the NW routinely burns random selections of his material from a big folder on his computer and then does individualized cover art for each one with some homemade computer art, hand-drawn sketches, hand coloring, and a signature. He sells these for about $50 each, and he sells lots of them to folks who want a one-of-kind momento from one of their favorite artists. On the other hand, I know another guy--a great musician and a great artist--who does the same thing, and he's selling mere handfuls of them. YMMV.

Good luck.

[John Kinn]

I have made two CD's for selling in my county in Norway (singer/songwriter self-penned stuff). The first one,in 2008, sold 600, the second one from last year, is running on 400, but sells slower. One of the reasons for this, I think, is that the CD format has lost some ground to streaming, which has taken over for downloading and physical CD's. Like it or not, but I think selling your music through streaming is a must if you want to spread your music these days, even though the pay is not good. But then it can lead to some people buying a physical CD. I think going for 500 copies first is a sound advice, not too much more money out, and you can always make new ones. And if you really break the market, there's no problem whatsoever;-) I'm working on a new record now,and maybe I will go for duplicating this time.
Anyway, good luck with your CD and let us know how it goes!
John

[foldedpath]

Just thought I'd pass this along... I have no experience with this company, just heard some positive reviews on another forum, so take that for what it's worth.

There's a company called Kunaki (kunaki.com) that does "just in time" replication and handles the order processing and fulfillment. You put a for-sale link on your own artist promotional web page, a customer clicks the link and that goes to the Kunaki site for ordering. They handle the payment transaction (credit card, Paypal, etc.) and ship to the customer. You get a monthly check for any sales made. You set whatever price you want on the CD, they take their cut before sending you the payments. Prices are on their site, looks like about $1 per CD plus shipping.

Like I said, I haven't used this outfit, just passing on second-hand info. You'd still want to do a bulk order if you're selling CD's at a performance, but this looks like an interesting way to avoid the "I've got 1000 CD's piled up in the corner" problem. Also, if you've ever done it, packaging and shipping CD's on an individual basis is not a lot of fun.

Something like this could be useful for direct web sales from an artist promotional site, in addition to whatever you manage through CDBaby or iTunes.

There are also companies offering services for direct digital download sales from your artist web site, but I don't know that area well enough to make any solid recommendations. The idea is to capture an immediate sale while someone is on your web site, without steering them off to another site like iTunes. It's the "impulse buy" model, and might be worth looking into.

[jaycat]

I guess that gives credence to the joke, "this cd is a million seller, I got a million in my celler".

Hah!

Or as Harry The Hipster Gibson said: "We made our first record and it immediately became a collector's item."

[cholzman]

You're getting some great advice.

Some additional practical feedback -

Whether you want duplication or replication - typically replication quantity is 500 on up. In the old days it had to 1000 minimum but in response to customer need - I mean how practical is it to press 1000 for every title an artist releases?

Rule of thumb - less than 500 you're looking at duplication. That's where you have blank discs and each one is individually "burned" with the information from your master.

500 or more - replication. That's where a glass master and stampers are made and the information from your master is actually pressed in as physical shape - Pits and Lans - think of them as 1's and 0's like in computer language.

Of course, cost-wise 300 or 400 duplicated discs could cost as much (or more than) 500 replicated - so do ask if the information isn't volunteered.

We talk with artists, bands, labels and publishers all day about this stuff so if you want to read more about it - for a good starting place go to http://www.cdmaker.com/duplication-vs-replication - at any time if you need, I'll make sure someone is available to you. You can contact us either by email or there's a live chat option.

Best wishes and good luck to keeping your garage for your cars and not boxes of CDs.

[Mandomax]

I wanted to provide an update. we went with Discmasters, and I DO NOT RECOMMEND THEM AT ALL
We had a big gig planned and wanted to coordinate our CD release with this. I contacted Discmasters to see if they could finish and ship it in time to get it here for the gig. They guaranteed us delivery by day of the gig, and guaranteed it in writing. My credit card was then charged for the entire amount, including the expediting. Day before gig comes, I contact them for a tracking number. they inform me that the discs haven't even entered production yet. The CSR handling our order wouldn't acknowledge his mistake and transferred us to a lady. She was extremely patronizing and rude, and informed me that life wasn't perfect. I told her I was shocked that they would guarantee the arrival in writing as well as charge me for it, and she told me she could go ahead and cancel the whole order if I wanted to be confrontational. At the point, I just wanted the discs and to cut my losses.
In summary, I DO NOT RECOMMEND DISCMASTERS AT ALL. Their customer service was absolutely atrocious, and they refused to admit their mistake. At least I got the expedited shipping refunded, only because I had the email where they guaranteed it. We already have 7 new songs in the can, so I will try Oasis next time. Sorry for the public flaming, but if one other artist avoids this, then it was worth it. Thank you all for your advice and help. I appreciate it.
Best,
Max

[Andy Alexander]

We just had the graphics and CD duplication done on a project by Jon Raney. They made going through the process very easy and were very prompt in getting the work done and to us. We communicated directly with Jon. I highly recommend them. www.raneyrecordingstudio.com 1 (866) 807-6305

[Loudloar]

Lots of good comments here.

I've got to give a +++ to Paul Kotapish's summary. I've used DiskMakers and have been very happy with them. (Different than Diskmasters, whoever they might be.) With DiskMakers you can initiate your order online and upload most everything such as art files, and even your audio tracks. (Although my preference is to mail them a master CD.) If you think you will eventually sell more than a couple hundred CDs, you should consider ordering 1,000 replicated CDs. It won't cost much more than having 300 CDs duplicated, or even doing it yourself once you consider the cost of ink, blank discs, jewel cases, and label/cover stock. It's nice to have plenty of CDs for promotion and give-aways, as well as for sale.

Steve

[mandroid]

So this sort of hardware is too much bother? & expense up front?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...opy_Tower.html
an then the Label, and jewel-case insert printer?

IDK, I'm lucky to find someone to play with, in general.