Celtic music instruction for mandolin :

[Kbone]

There was a gal who recommended a book/cd instruction book w/ tunes & so forth, but I deleted it by accident, so if you're out there or any other suggestions I'd appreciate it.

[Perry]

I like this book. Standard only.Irish Fiddle

[Richard Eskite]

I've been using "The Irish Mandolin" by Padraig Carroll. So far, so good.

[montana]

I've been working my way through the Irish Fiddle book by Pat Cooper. I like it a lot has a lot of standerd tunes. Next up learn the tunes off the Micheal Coleman recordings.

[gortnamona]

personally i would go for Enda Scahill's banjo tutor, by a long way the best tutor book+cd out there

[Jill McAuley]

I second Lawrence's recommendation of Enda's tutor - it's brilliant for tenor banjo or mandolin, great stuff altogether.

I think the book/CD that the OP is trying to remember the name of is the Mel Bay book by Joe Carr and Mike Gregory "School of Mandolin: Irish Mandolin" which came out a few years ago.

Cheers,
Jill

[Kbone]

Thanks for the suggestions, btw anyone looked at the Steve Kaufman stuff, he has a lot for Irish/celtic music for mandolin & Joe Carr' book.

[CelticDude]

I'd also recommend Simon Mayor's "New Celtic Mandolin" book and CD. It's not a beginner book, but has lots of great ideas and arrangements of standard tunes, and some not-so-standard tunes. And the music on the CD is often amazing! - DWP

[Steve L]

This all depends on what you're looking to do. If your goal is to play in sessions the Simon Mayer stuff really isn't designed to do that, though it's very good for what it is.

The Steve Kaufman stuff is so stylistically "wrong" it's astonishing. If you're a bluegrasser looking for something different it's fine, but if you want to play in Irish style it could really do more harm than good. It's put together like his other stuff and the musicianship is impeccable but the feel is really weird.

If you're a beginner on the instrument, Anthony Warde has a DVD out that's pretty good and starts from scratch. The Padraig Carroll book is pretty good as is the Philip John Berthoud book.

If you're already a mandolin player and you have decent technique, I'd focus more on tunes than methods. I really like the Foinn Session books put out by the Comhaltas.

I'd also very seriously consider our own Dagger Gordon's Scottish mandolin tutor. He's a wonderful player.

[Jim MacDaniel]

Were you looking for the Foinn Seisiún series? IIRC Jill recommended them in another thread as a great resource for learning tunes. (The link I provided is to book 1 at Amazon; it is cheaper to buy the books from them separately from the accompanying recording, and then purchase the recording frm them as an MP3 album.)

[Jim MacDaniel]

Were you looking for the Foinn Seisiún series? IIRC Jill recommended them in another thread as a great resource for learning tunes. (The link I provided is to book 1 at Amazon; it is cheaper to buy the books from them separately from the accompanying recording, and then purchase the recording frm them as an MP3 album.)

Here's that thread if this was what you were looking for.

[citeog]

I'd echo what Steve L. said about Steve Kaufman. If you're just starting off with Irish music, stay away from his stuff. He plays bluegrass versions of Irish tunes. I wouldn't recommend the Anthony Warde DVD either. It's sold as a beginner tutor but the first tune is a reel (Mountain Road, I believe). There's some brilliant playing on it but it's not for a beginner. My recollection of the Berthoud book was that it's full of odd tunes in odder keys. When you're starting out you should learn familiar tunes in standard keys. I haven't seen Enda Scahill's tutor but he's the business when it comes to playing. Many moons ago I purchased Gerry O'Connor's tutor for the tenor banjo and it's still my favourite book/CD combo. There's some great tunes in it like Ramblin' Pitchfork, Humours of Tulla etc. Even though it's a banjo tutor, it's perfectly applicable to Irish mandolin. Good luck with your journey.

Paul

[Steve L]

That's interesting Paul, I didn't remember that about Berthoud's book...I'll haven't seen it in a long time.

[Kbone]

Where can you get these books/cd's, maybe I missed it, but didn't see it on Elderly.

[Jill McAuley]

Which books are you inquiring about in particular? All of the above? Specific ones?
-The Foinn Sessions books used to be stocked by Elderly and you can download the Foinn CD's from iTunes.

-Enda's book is available from his website: www.endascahill.com

-Dagger's book was available from Elderly, though it's a popular one so they're sometimes sold out.

-The Mel Bay School of Mandolin: Irish Mandolin book is available from their website, Amazon might have it as well.

-Gerry O'Connor's beginner tenor banjo book (which you can use for learning tunes on the mandolin) is available from Elderly and Amazon I'm pretty sure.

Cheers,
Jill

[mikeyes]

I have all of those books and still like Enda's book best for mandolin and banjo.

Most of the other books are somewhat idiosyncratic reflecting the skills and style of the individual authors. Simon Mayor is a brilliant player and I love his work, but I hesitate to call it mainstream Irish trad. The other books are OK but mostly not for beginners. The exception is the Joe Carr/Mike Gregory book which is for beginners and is an extension of the series on Irish mandolin that Mike Gregory started several years ago on mandolinsessions.com.

One problem is that there are few models for mandolin in ITM in the written word. I was at Zoukfest recently and was able to listen and learn from two of the great Irish mandolinists, Luke Plumb and Roger Landes (Roger gave the mandolin class this year) and it was clear to me that the mandolin has a lot of potential that goes in a different direction than the banjo. But the only way, for now, that you can learn from them is to go to class or buy their music.

For a novice, Enda Scahill's book offers a mandolin player the opportunity to learn beginning skills which are not that much different from banjo beginning skills. Enda is a skilled mandolin player himself and his method is very clear and easy to follow. Once you have the techniques offered in his book, you can play Irish music in most sessions and sound like you belong.

I agree that Steve K.'s book is not suitable for Irish style. He teaches Irish tunes but to my ear it sounds like a bluegrasser playing Irish music. I've been trying for years to get away from that style. (It's hard when your native music is bluegrass )

A beginner needs to get the basics down, Enda's book does that, but afterwards the instrument has another direction that you can go in. Mandolins are not minature banjos. Listen to Mick Moloney, Dad B., Luke Plumb, Roger Landes, Marla Fibish, Dagger Gordon, and a host of others who don't have method books out there (yet) and you can appreciate the unique qualities of the mandolin in ITM. Those musicians are all solidly in the tradition but like all great musicians have a voice that makes them unique. You could do worse than learning from them.

[Kbone]

again, much thanks for the tips..

[CelticDude]

My recollection of the Berthoud book was that it's full of odd tunes in odder keys. When you're starting out you should learn familiar tunes in standard keys.
Paul

The Berthoud book has what seem like standard tunes - Merry Blacksmith, Scatter the Mud, Geese in the Bog, etc. (although the Derry Aire may be the butt of jokes...). And while Star of Munster was in Gm, not Am, my local seisun actually played it in this key (fortunately I had a Gm whistle with me.) So this seems like a good start for learning tunes. What did get me in trouble is that Berthoud arranges specifically for mandolin. Some are quite nice, but, at least for Sgt Early's Dream, it was different enough from the "straight" version that it didn't work in the seisun. (Yes, all caveats about straight versions apply.)

For learning tunes for seisuns you maybe want to get away from mandolin books, and use something like Sullivan's Irish Traditional Music Session tunes (3 volumes). Despite the caveats around learning ITM from written music, there sure is a lot of it available. - DWP

[Gelsenbury]

I have all of those books and still like Enda's book best for mandolin and banjo.

Since you have them all, I would be interested in your review of Padraig Carroll's book. I'm making very slow progress through it (getting distracted by so many other tunes!) and I like it.

[michaelpthompson]

For learning tunes for seisuns you maybe want to get away from mandolin books, and use something like Sullivan's Irish Traditional Music Session tunes (3 volumes). Despite the caveats around learning ITM from written music, there sure is a lot of it available. - DWP

There's nothing wrong with learning ITM from written music, just remember, it doesn't begin and end on the page. I have a friend who was a classical violinist who wanted to learn to play ITM. They wouldn't let her bring sheet music to the session. So she wrote down the names of the tunes and learned them at home from the sheet music, then learned how they are played during the session from the other musicians. She could learn tunes much faster than the traditional auditory method because she was able to go both ways. In fact, she got so good, we nicknamed her rendition of "Gravel Walks" as "Gravel Runs." She could play it faster than any of us could keep up. Usually we all played it together, but once in a while somebody would challenge her and she'd leave us all in the dust on the third or fourth go round.

[mikeyes]

Since you have them all, I would be interested in your review of Padraig Carroll's book. I'm making very slow progress through it (getting distracted by so many other tunes!) and I like it.

Padraig Carroll's book is OK but I found that I was a bit bored by it. The reason for that response is that by the time I got his book, I had been playing ITM for a number of years and gotten used to listening to others play the music and finding ways to play it with my own style (which has changed since then, by the way.)

The best way to learn is to listen to tunes, listen to the lilt, and incorporate it. I will often listen to a tune for days before I try to duplicate it on banjo or mandolin. Even then I don't always get it right. I use music notation (gathered from a number of sources, mostly the free ones on the net like the JC Tunefinder) as a guide to the tune itself and then learn to play it from live players or recordings.

On the other hand, Padraig Carroll's book is a good resource if you are just starting out and in the hinterlands with no mentors of any kind. If you have a session nearby, go to it. It is a lot easier to learn the tunes from the session since the group should encourage you to learn and you have a template to use to get the sound of the tunes.

My favorite way to learn is with a teacher - I have to go to workshops to do this - as a teacher is the real thing right there. It is very hard not to learn when you are three feet from Mick Moloney or Enda Scahill!

I guess what I am saying is that each of us is at a different place in our music. In the beginning it is best to have a standard style so books and teachers are much better than nothing since they will guide you towards more efficient and generally pleasant ways to play. As you develop a style, assuming that the technical issues are solved, then listening to a variety of sources - books, recordings, workshops have more effect on your playing and style. Once you have a base - usually the "standard" techniques and interpretations of the music - you can then deviate all you want as you continue to improve.

Padraig Carroll's book fits in that model fairly early on, for me at least, and his ideas are very good. When I say I was "bored", it was mostly because my interests were elsewhere at the time. In fact, I am going to hunt the book down and see what I missed. Recently I have found that by going over old lessons and books I have been able to get a lot more out of them than I would have as a beginner.

[liestman]

My favorite way to learn is with a teacher - I have to go to workshops to do this - as a teacher is the real thing right there. It is very hard not to learn when you are three feet from Mick Moloney or Enda Scahill!

There are two workshops coming up that folks might want to consider. The Portal Irish Week is happening in Arizona in mid October, with Marla Fibish teaching mandolin. Then the O'Flaherty Irish Music Retreat is happening at the end of October in Texas, with me teaching mandolin. I certainly am not Enda Scahill (I wish!) but I am sure that Marla's class and my class will be focused on playing in an Irish style. Both of these workshops also contain a large number of other classes for you multi-talented types.

[Gelsenbury]

@mikeyes:
Thank you for the detailed reply. One of the reasons why I'm making such slow progress with the Carroll book is that I'm spending so much time practising tunes from my local session! However, being a beginner (relatively speaking) means that the session still plays much too fast for me. I managed to play a hornpipe almost up to speed at a session 2 weeks ago, but I'm nowhere near there with jigs, reels, etc.

Being a relative beginner also means that I'm probably right in the middle of the demographic for which you consider the book suitable. I feel reassured by having some pedagogy around the tunes. So I'll keep trying to progress through the book as well as learning local session tunes on my own and with my teacher. Slow progress is still progress.