yamaha mixer

[mandolirius]

I'm looking at powered mixers and wondering if anyone has any comments on the YAMAHA EMX312SC. It seems like the best bet in my local market for the money I have to spend.

[G7MOF]

I've used them in the past but never owned one, I will say, they are easy to use, and if you use a good matching set of cab's they sound crisp as well.
I don't know which models they were though!

[foldedpath]

Do you already have passive speakers to use with a powered monitor? If not, and you're shopping for a full system, I'd advise going modular -- powered speakers and a compact, non-powered mixer. That will cost a little more, but not a great deal more. Modular PA's are easier to expand or contract down the road. You can upgrade mixer separately from speakers, or vice-versa. Powered speakers generally sound better too, with the amps tailored to the drivers.

I like having a more distributed system for backups too. If the amp fails in one speaker, the show goes on with the remaining one(s). I could even use the limited mixer built into my speakers, with a direct mic input. With a powered mixer, all your eggs are in one basket.

That said, if you already have passive speakers or you just like the powered mixer approach, then that Yamaha model looks pretty good on paper (I haven't heard it). I'd normally recommend Soundcraft, but their model in this price and power range is the GigRac 600, which only has two EQ bands (odd, for a Soundcraft design). The GigRac 1000st has three bands of EQ, but it's about $150 more. I wouldn't recommend anything with just two EQ bands. The GigRac design does have separate input trim and channel levels like a "real" mixer, which the Yamaha lacks (unless I missed it), and they don't include fluff you don't need like compression.

Overall I like the GigRac 100st the best, based on design and features, but it does cost more. And again, you can get better EQ if you go the powered speakers + non-powered monitor approach. With acoustic instruments, I like having at least a semi-parametric mid EQ to help control feedback and tweak instrument and vocal tone. Every time I have to use fixed frequency mid EQ, I feel like a big tool is missing from the toolbox.

[mandolirius]

Do you already have passive speakers to use with a powered monitor? If not, and you're shopping for a full system, I'd advise going modular -- powered speakers and a compact, non-powered mixer. That will cost a little more, but not a great deal more. Modular PA's are easier to expand or contract down the road. You can upgrade mixer separately from speakers, or vice-versa. Powered speakers generally sound better too, with the amps tailored to the drivers.

I like having a more distributed system for backups too. If the amp fails in one speaker, the show goes on with the remaining one(s). I could even use the limited mixer built into my speakers, with a direct mic input. With a powered mixer, all your eggs are in one basket.

That said, if you already have passive speakers or you just like the powered mixer approach, then that Yamaha model looks pretty good on paper (I haven't heard it). I'd normally recommend Soundcraft, but their model in this price and power range is the GigRac 600, which only has two EQ bands (odd, for a Soundcraft design). The GigRac 1000st has three bands of EQ, but it's about $150 more. I wouldn't recommend anything with just two EQ bands. The GigRac design does have separate input trim and channel levels like a "real" mixer, which the Yamaha lacks (unless I missed it), and they don't include fluff you don't need like compression.

Overall I like the GigRac 100st the best, based on design and features, but it does cost more. And again, you can get better EQ if you go the powered speakers + non-powered monitor approach. With acoustic instruments, I like having at least a semi-parametric mid EQ to help control feedback and tweak instrument and vocal tone. Every time I have to use fixed frequency mid EQ, I feel like a big tool is missing from the toolbox.

Thanks, FP. The situation is that the venues have their own systems. The speakers are permanently mounted, usually in a convenient place for the venue but not the best for sound. There generally is no room to bring another set of speakers in. So I can't do anything about that. But the mixing boards are usually crap, baffed channels and various other funkiness. So I thought I could at least bring in my own board and use the house speakers, which are always passive.

[foldedpath]

Okay, that's a special situation, but let's think about this (collectively, everyone else join in!).

The venues must have working power amps driving those speakers, right? Why not just get a good non-powered mixer, and tap into those amps? Or better yet (and simpler), if the mixers are at least passing signal, then use your own mixer and tap into a line input on the house mixer. Then you don't have to buy a powered mixer. You can invest in a better compact mixer, something like the Allen & Heath ZED series, or the Soundcraft MFXi line (that's what I use).

I've done this a few times at a local venue, one of the best places for acoustic music shows in town -- the Upstage in Port Townsend. It's a cool, small venue with a wraparound small stage. There are two big, powered 3-way Mackie speakers at one side wall, with the house mixer (an older Mackie board) in an inconvenient location over by bar on the other side of the room. It sounds pretty good when it's dialed-in, but there usually isn't a pro sound person to run sound... it's kind of catch-as-catch-can, depending on who's playing on a given night.

Several times now, I've just gone in with my compact 8-channel Soundcraft mixer, and fed into the house snake at the stage, running into a line input on the house mixer. It bypasses the house mixer completely, and just lets me drive the house speakers while mixing from the tiny stage area while we're playing. Works great. The only drawback is that I don't have direct control of the monitors.... I could fudge that with another feed into the mixer from the AUX output of my stage mixer, but in this particular venue the monitors aren't that important. There are floor monitors available, but the space is so small that we're basically working with FOH sound bleed for monitoring. Your situation will no doubt be different, especially if you're doing this at different venues, and you'll have to think about the monitor issues.

Note: if you do this, the right way is to use an isolation transformer before feeding the output of your mixer into another mixer down the line. Something like this Radial Twin Iso, although you can find them cheaper... check what Whirlwind and Rolls have on offer. That's to avoid grounding or other mis-wiring issues that could damage your mixer. I know this venue, and it's the only place I work this way, so I haven't bothered. But if you're moving around a bunch of different venues with dodgy wiring and house systems, go ahead and invest in an iso transformer before you plug in your own mixer ahead of the house PA mixer.

[Murphy Slaw]

The best bang for the buck for p.a./monitor gear in my opinion is Carvin. They sell direct to you, no dealer middleman to bump the price. Most of the gear is American made, the service is great, the prices are great, there is no downside.

I've got a room full of Carvin bass and p.a. stuff from my bar gigging days that have been beat up, and traveled all over the U.S.A. and it never fails me.

Best of luck.

Murph.

[Tim2723]

A critical statement made is that the house speakers are always passive. If that is true, then it does not necessarily follow that the house mixer and power amps are separate. They probably are, but it could also be that the house is using a powered mixer similar to the Yamaha being discussed. That's not usually the case though, and I wouldn't bet on it. But if it is true, then you can simply unplug the house system at the speaker cabinets themselves and plug the Yamaha in.

But as FP mentioned, all you need is to get into their system with your own unpowered mixer. Even if the house system is so beaten and broken that only a single channel works, as long as something comes out of their system you can patch into it with your own unpowered mixer. Just find that one thing that works through the house system and plug into that spot.

But beware, house systems are never that simple. They often involve components and wiring that is buried deep in the walls and ceilings. The one thing you need to get to will be inaccessible. You'll be presented a mass of tangled, confused wires that only one guy in the world understands, and he won't be there. So be sure you have every conceivable adaptor and an isolating transformer.

BUT BEFORE YOU DO ANY OF THAT, DO THIS: Go around to these venues and look at their entertainment schedules. Call the other bands and find out what they do at that venue.

The manager of a venue will tell you that other bands use the house system. Then it turns out that the 'other band' is a solo guitar using the only two working channels of the house system. Been there. Done all of it.

[P.D. Kirby]

I just picked this one up with a set of 12 inch Yamaha speakers, stands and some sure mics very cheap and we are using it for small venues. It is a very clean sounding PA with enough power to play a decent sized venue. If you can find a good deal I would recommend the Yamaha for sure...

[mandolirius]

"A critical statement made is that the house speakers are always passive. If that is true, then it does not necessarily follow that the house mixer and power amps are separate. They probably are, but it could also be that the house is using a powered mixer similar to the Yamaha being discussed. That's not usually the case though, and I wouldn't bet on it. But if it is true, then you can simply unplug the house system at the speaker cabinets themselves and plug the Yamaha in."

Yep, this is the case. No separate amps and mixers, just powered mixers usually a Yorkville, which is the house brand for Long & McQuade who are the main supplier of PA stuff around these parts.

[TonyP]

Funny, I've used exactly that EMX 660, except it had I think 8" speakers with it. I thought it was a good sounding setup, and at the time the guy in the band bought the whole setup from GC or MF for around $500 in a package, with stands and I think even some mic's.

Though I thought it was good sounding, I had two gripes. The 7 band eq was pretty much worthless to try and get rid of feedback without taking a good chunk of the music with it. The other is maybe just this particular unit. But randomly, phantom power seems to do something weird and some mic's won't work, but others will. I get them home, and on my stuff they are fine. Of course, if you are using dynamic's, this does not apply. But, I wonder if it's like some of the early stuff I used to see, even in the Mackie line, where it didn't have full 48v phantom, something like 14v? dunno, can't remember.

[Tim2723]

"Yep, this is the case. No separate amps and mixers, just powered mixers usually a Yorkville, which is the house brand for Long & McQuade who are the main supplier of PA stuff around these parts.

OK, now we're cooking. That being the case unplug whatever nasty powered mixer (aka PA head) at the house speakers and using your own speaker cables, plug in the Yamaha.

Other than assuring that you have enough channels and the features you want, there are two major technical concerns. First, that the mixer you buy has enough power for the job. Second, that the connections between the head and the speakers are compatible. You may need to carry different cable to mate with the various venues' speakers.

But those concerns can be negated with an unpowered mixer. As long as at least one channel of the house mixer works, and assuming that the house mixer's power supplies are actually driving the speakers, just plugging an unpowered mixer in will let you do everything without fussing about the house speakers or trying to match anything. One patch cord and you're in. You'll just be using the house mixer's power section to drive their speakers.

But you have to do one or the other. An unpowered mixer won't drive any speakers, and a powered mixer must be attached to speakers or it will self-destruct.

As to buying the Yamaha, I think it would work well as long as it has the power required. They make a larger model. But if the brand of choice is Yorkville, why not just get that? It's available in your area, and the venues probably bought them as matched systems, so the speakers are probably Yorkville too.

If you opt for the unpowered route, I would highly recommend the Soundcraft line that Foldedpath mentioned earlier. I use a Soundcraft with my Bose set up and it is excellent. You can get a lot better quality mixer for the same price as a powered mixer of mediocre value.

[mandolirius]

"But if the brand of choice is Yorkville, why not just get that?"

It's costly, about a grand. The Yamaha would be about half that. Plus the Yorkville's aren't flat. They're like a small floor monitor - wedge shaped. They're bulkier than the Yamaha, and heavier.

[Tim2723]

OK, got that. I'd recommend you check the power requirements carefully for the various venues though. If you're talking about the Yorkville MicrMIX series (the wedge-shaped ones) they provide something like 1600 watts. The Yamaha you mentioned earlier is something like 1/4 that.