Zouk to Cello tunning?

[Revrebel]

Hey all i just got my zouk about a month ago. I got it in hopes of tuning it into a mandocello. The guy at my shop threw in some free strings and said i could tune it into 5th's. I don't know wasn't sure what he meant by that. I'm still on the "this string is tuned to this note" level of theory. But On the package(there Athena strings) it says for bouzouki's.So how can i tune that into corresponding notes ? Also how can i tell if i can tune the strings that are on there right now into a mandocello tuning?

Thanks for reading,
Guy

[violmando]

You can TRY to tune it to mandocello tunings, but it won't have the sound and you might want to check your neck....With mandocello strings, they are heavier and probably too much stress. There's a reason for mandocellos being more expensive; they are built bigger and thicker for those lower tones. Mandocello is (top to bottom): A D G C....that LOW C takes a lot to come out. Even some guitar to mc conversions don't work out for the same reason. Sorry!

[Eddie Sheehy]

If it's an Irish Zouk then it's already tuned in 5ths - maybe with a top D instead of an E which is easily done. Your bass strings are G, for a cello sound you need to get a C on that course - CGDA instead of GDAE. Mandocellos use anything from a .054 to a .074 for the C strings - that would probably be too much tension for your zouk. Who made your zouk? If it was built by a luthier or "good" name-brand they should be able to advise you of teh string gauges it can take. If it's a Pac-Rim, don't even try.
Some musicians have 10-string Citterns which they tune CGDAE and cover both a Zouk/OM and a 'Cello, again the string gauges vary but they really don't sound cello-like.

[allenhopkins]

1. What kind of "bouzouki" did you get –– a Greek bowl-back, an "Irish" flat-back, etc.? Who was the maker?

2. What's the scale length -- the distance from the bridge to the nut (the little bar across the neck, below the tuning pegs, above the first fret)?

3. If the dealer gave you another set of bouzouki strings, that won't help you tune it like a mandocello. If he said, "You can tune it in fifths," that probably meant that it was tuned in "Greek bouzouki" tuning when you got it (?) -- basically a fourths tuning, with one third interval, like the DGBE top four strings of a guitar.

4. Not familiar with Athena strings, but the Greek nomenclature makes me wonder if they're designed for "Irish bouzouki"* tuning, GDAE like an octave mandolin, or for "Greek" tuning. Are the string pitches written on the string envelopes?

5. Pretty close to apples-and-oranges, trying to tune bouzouki like a mandocello. The 'cello's a fifth lower, CGDA, so you can try moving "Irish bouzouki" strings over one fret -- put the fourth string pair where the third string pair normally goes -- and getting a set of strings for the fourth course that can be tuned down to C. But you're not likely to have much luck getting a good "C" tone; the heavy "C" strings may also damage your instrument, which isn't braced to take the tension of stretching a mandocello string over the longer bouzouki scale.

In a way, you might be better off trying to re-string and re-tune a guitar to get a version of mandcello tuning, than a bouzouki. Hard to find a cheap mandocello, though there are several choices for an inexpensive bouzouki.

* Or "Mexican pizza": see this contentious thread

[Eddie Sheehy]

Oh wait, you said Athena strings - they're for a Greek Bouzouki. Tuned in guitar-like tuning...CFAD with octave strings on the bass courses. Greek zouks tend to NOT have truss-rods and have a long scale length. Greek Zouk strings are light gauge. I would avoid even trying to convert it to a mandocello. By all means use Irish tuning - GDAD(E), but use "Irish Zouk" strings or Octave Mandolin strings (which are a tad heavier)...

[Revrebel]

hey all thank for all the responses, I have a Luna bouzouki with a 26 1/4th(ish) inch scale. The sides and back are lament but it does have a trust rod. Do you think it would be strong enough for the cello tuning? An just encase i get crazy with it, what would happen if i tried to tune it and it wasn't strong enough? Would the neck bow after some time has passed?

thanks,
guy

[allenhopkins]

...I have a Luna bouzouki with a 26 1/4th(ish) inch scale. The sides and back are lament but it does have a trust rod. Do you think it would be strong enough for the cello tuning? An just encase i get crazy with it, what would happen if i tried to tune it and it wasn't strong enough? Would the neck bow after some time has passed?...

1. If what you have is the $400 Luna model, I wouldn't try adding to the tension.

2. Laminated back and sides aren't the problem. Actually, you might be better off with a laminated top instrument, since a plywood top is (generally) stiffer than a solid-wood top. Doesn't sound as good, but is more durable.

3. If you over-tensioned the instrument, the most probable immediate effect is that the top would cave in. A neck bow would be a secondary, longer-term type of damage. The tailpiece might tear loose, which would be good, since it would preclude further body damage.

4. Mandocello strings would be of different diameters than the bouzouki strings for which your Luna was designed, so re-slotting the bridge saddle and nut would also have to be considered.

5. Scale length on your Luna is longer than a Gibson mandocello, by about 1.5 inches, so you'd have to tighten mandocello strings even more to bring them to CGDA. Another recipe for body damage...

In the end, you can try it and see, but "getting crazy" with the Luna may mean some serious damage. What about going to a lower, but not fully mandocello tuning, by slackening the strings your instrument has -- say, EBF#C#? You'll get a loose, "floppy" feel, but you could get some idea of what the instrument would sound like...

[catmandu2]

As Allen mentioned (and others have posted threads about), a safer and relatively inexpensive solution is to convert a guitar--especially an Ovation or Applause (which has an alloy neck and will survive the elements along with mosquitos and roaches):




If you did try it with your cuurent bouzouki, you might notice the neck relief increasing and action start raising--despite the presence of a truss rod--(and even top sinking/bridge lifting) as you begin tensioning to pitch. Be ready to abort.