Sore fingertips

[placlair]

Hi,

I've been playing my mando for about a month and have really been enjoying it. I have a pretty constant problem with sore fingertips though, which really limits my practice time (presently, I can play for only about a half hour before I start to hurt pretty badly). Taking short breaks only worsens the soreness. I've built up callouses, but apparently not enough!

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions that might help me overcome this problem. My playing consists of a mixture of old-time picking and chord progressions of more popular tunes. It is the chords that really burn me out, holding down the same strings for a measure or two. I'm working on learning closed chords, but for now I mostly use two or three finger chords which really stress especially my pointer and middle fingers.

I've lowered the action as far as possible, but I don't know what else to do! I just want to play!

Thanks for the tips!

-PL

[Phil1580]

Keep playing, keep playing, keep playing. It will get better. I'm new on mandolin but played guitar for 15 years, and those fingers will harden up.....however my fingers are pretty sore after a 2 or 3 hour gig no matter how callused I am. Some might say go for a set of lighter gauge strings, but most say to stick with the medium gauge.

I don't suggest this, but I've read that Stevie Ray Vaughan played guitar until his fingertips were bloodied hamburger meat....then he would cover the wounds with superglue so he could keep going. For the love of the music!

[Brent Hutto]

Everyone seems to get sore fingertips at your stage of the game but in practicing chords I'd bet anything that you are pressing down way harder than you need to. Each finger needs a fairly limited amount of pressure (if you are putting it right immediately behind the fret) to play its note cleanly.

The trouble comes when you're using one fingertip to leverage the others. Let's say you're holding the index and middle fingers in the usual two-finger G chord position. Now you want to reach over with one or both of the other fingers to add fretted notes on the lower strings. In that position it is trivial get enough pressure for clean G and D notes but your hand isn't flexible or strong enough to provide sufficient pressure immediately behind the fret way over on the bottom courses. The natural reaction is to force your hand to pivot on those two "easy" fingers and lever extra force into the finger or two that's stretched out.

That's where the damage is being done. The solution is to practice getting those "reach over" fingers where they need to be while consciously avoiding any more than the minimum pressure on the "tucked under" fingers. Or practice getting your hand in the chord shape while hovering over the fretboard then lowering the entire chord shape carefully onto all strings at once, with no excess pressure anyway.

And that is very, very difficult for a beginner. But it beats wrecking your fingertips!

P.S. And if you are not putting your fingers immediately behind each fret, I mean right up next to them, then start doing that right away.

P.P.S. And however fast you are trying to practice your chords, slow down to about a quarter that speed until you can do then over and over cleanly with no pain.

[Denny Gies]

Stay with it, the rewards are worth it. Once your callouses build up you will be amazed. Have fun.

[Pete Summers]

Most people probably come to the mandolin from guitar, fiddle, banjo, etc., and usually have some callouses built up. However, if the mandolin is your first stringed instrument (and it was for me), the problem can be difficult to overcome since the double strings and high tension makes the mando a finger eater for sure. But stick with it. It will get better.

I'd second the opinion that you are probably pressing down on the strings harder and with more tension than you need to. Try to relax and use only the pressure necessary to keep the string from buzzing. And practice scales, arpeggios and fiddle tunes which are a little easier on the fingers than chords when trying to build callouses.

And don't overdo it --- practice only as long as you can without too much pain, then stop for the day. It's not a race, after all. It's a gradual process, but the callouses will get tougher over time if you just stick with it.

[JeffD]

It would be informative if some dermatologist could explain how the finger tips are toughened and how we might optmize the process.

When I started it was terrible. I could not stand it. I tried all kinds of things, that involved putting stuff on my fingers, soaking them in different solutions, and none of it helped and a few thing I tried just made it worse.

Flash forward many many years. I took a several year break from music, thinking I had something better to do with my time, (idiot), and when I got back to playing I had to go through it all again. It was probably just as bad, but being all growed up I managed it with more perspective. I had bigger things to complain about at the time.

There is no easy to get past it but to go through it. I suppose you can take some comfort in that it will pass, and we have all gone through it. That kind of thing never helped me either, but once you go through it you have the right to say it to others.

[Grommet]

Placlair- I think everyone has given pretty good advice. At 1 month, your callouses are not fully developed by a long shot. Keep practicing! If your fingers remain sore after practice, I found that Neosporin cream with Pain Relief (cream not ointment) applied to the fingertips will relive the pain nicely for a while at least.

Ciao,

Scott

[michaelpthompson]

Ditto the advice to just keep on playing. You can also take a page from exercise physiology. When you work a muscle, you always wait a day or two before working it again, to let it heal. This actually builds strength faster than working it every day. It's counterintuitive, but the same things happens with finger callouses. Work until it hurts, then take a break. If it still hurts more than a little the next day, lay off for a day and come back. Give them a chance to harden up.

[Theo B]

Whenever that happened to me I tried to take a break. The most difficult thing ever! Playing mandolin is just too much fun! Anyway, I went with rubbing rubbing alcohol on my fingertips to dry them out to play. I'm not sure it really helped, the best thong to do is to keep at it and if it seriously starts bothering you just take a break.

[Lukas J]

Good analogy Michael. They need some time to harden. I've been playing stringed instruments less years than many on the thread, but after 8 years on various stringed instruments, one-day breaks from heavy playing are a dependable fix to heal up fingertips. And never... NEVER take a job as a dishwasher... they shrivel up and fall off. The bass instructor at my school said he had that gig for a few months. the first night he got home and started practicing... and all it took was one slide before his fingertips were left all over the strings and fingerboard. Take care of those calluses.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Keep at it - it's the ONLY way. Your fingertip skin will thicken,it's your body's way of protecting itself from harm. When your fingertips get sore,stop playing & let them rest. It's a slow but sure process,just don't make it more uncomfortable than you need to. I've got callouses like coconuts on my fingertips,but the very worst f/tip pain i got,was when i began playing Guitar - that 5th & 6th string simply shredded my fingertips,until they thickened up. We've all been there,just hang in,
Ivan

[Mike Snyder]

I play daily and have good calluses, hard and thick. If I (or anyone, I suspect) play for three hours at a farmers market in the morning (solo gig) then another three at a evening jam, I'm gonna be sore. Same with festivals. The bunch of loonies I love to play with the most, it's nothing out of the ordinary for music to be played for twelve hours a day. Players come and go, those hammered dulcimer people don't get sore fingers, maybe a little carpal tunnel from repetitive use, but this is marathon stuff. So, out of desperation, and because I CAN"T STAND to sit and not play, I've found what works for me. And what does not. Super glue or fingernail polish; maybe on a banjo or guitar, it's never worked (for me) on the mandolin. The 8string little monster just chews the stuff to bits. When things get really bad, and that's after a day and a half of 8, 10 hours picking jigs and reels and shottsches and polkas and barn dances and fiddle tunes, When I'm ready for bed in the camper, I slather my hands with generic Wal-Mart aspercreme and wear latex-free exam gloves to bed. I use alot, and make sure that there's a good glob at the left fingertips. The pain is much better the next morning and it helps alot with some minor arthritic pain I have in the joints of my hands. I thought that it might make the calluses soft, but it doesn't seem to. I pop off the gloves, I spend half my life with 'em on anyway, wash up, go to it.
There are some pictures around of me playing with a glove. That is for extreme situations, and that glove only has one finger. I have an amputation of the left index finger, no big deal, lost about 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch, long time ago. If that sucker gets a blister, man I'm telling you, we're talking pain. I've had multiple kidney stones. I know pain. I'm amazed how well the glove works, and I get to play now where years past I had to sit out. Did I mention that I HATE to sit out? I can do a good long day, usually two before the glove comes out. I also play more tenor banjo. It's easier on the fingers and the musical expectations go WAY down when you're holding a banjo.
Well, that d#@ picture doesn't quite show the wussy glove, but it's there. I was such a wuss they made me wear a dress and earings. I tell ya, I don't get no respect!

[Mike Snyder]

Better gloveboy shots.
That's Tom Smith from Winfield in the green tie dye, Bill And Deanna Lisk from Siloam Springs, Ark.
The fellow in authentic Native American attire is Mike Ward, from Wichita, and he should know better.
The banjo is a piece of junk, but Tom won't sell me his Orpheum, so what would YOU do?

[EdHanrahan]

I'll be the contrarian here and guess that, callouses or not, you're probably developing bone bruises. They can be tricky, because it doesn't take much to go from mild pain to pretty bad, but it also doesn't take much to make 'em go away if they're not YET real bad. Painful as it may seem, a 3 or 4 day break is probably what you need, then start in slowly and back off for another few days if the pain seems more than just "skin-deep".

Think of it this way: What's a few days or weeks when you want to be playing for the rest of your life? Use the interim to bone up on music theory!

And yes, you probaably are pressing much harder than necessary.

[Toycona]

Besides practicing daily (if even scales), I and others have found that keeping your fingernails trimmed properly will help a bit. Lots of people use some fingernail leverege for sliding up the neck cleanly. It also helps to 'spider up' with your fingertips - that is, stay on point as much as you can...don't reach across the neck with your fingers extended. That bad habit will cost you the callouses you need and create ones that you don't.

Someone mentioned guitar playing. As a reformed guitar strummer, I found that I had to make different callouses for the mandolin. Now when I play the guitar, my fingers get sore. So I don't play guitar much any more.

*spider up - a term my son's piano teacher used to describe how she wanted his fingers to approach the keys. It seems appropriate on the mandolin too.

[dochardee]

I have found a brush on product called Rock-Tips to be a godsend. When I had to take a break from playing due to an injury and lost my calluses, I found I could play without pain after brushing the Rock-Tips solution on my fingertips. It dries and forms a superglue shield over your fingertips. Speeds development of your calluses also.

[Toycona]

I just looked at Rock-Tips, and it reminds me of New Skin. I've used that for blisters on my feet and thumb (from bowling), but never for callouses. I suppose it'd work just fine.

[barney 59]

I once read that half the alcohol sold as men were trudging into the gold fields of the Yukon was sold for drinking. The other half was poured into their shoes to toughen their feet. Alcohol will toughen skin, it will also remove finish from your mandolin so alcohol treatments and playing should probably not be simultaneous. You have to push through it like we all did and if you bear enough pain it will improve your blues playing. You could go the REAL Hillbilly route and use a little oxycontin. You could try a lighter gauge string for a while. I recently put a set of j67's on one of my mandolins. I thought they might produce a tone that would be good for rags and such- which they weren't but they would probably be a little easier on your fingers.

[placlair]

Well thanks for the help! I'm glad to know it is pretty normal!

[baiyongjie]

Seven months in to playing the mandolin, the pain is a fading memory, so hang in there!!

But I was hit by a car riding my bike to work last Tuesday, and broke my pinky, ring and middle fingers (along with my patella, but that's not much to complain about for having flown seven meters), so I'll be back to square one when I get started playing again. All I can think about these days is playing mandolin. Well, almost. I also think about getting another mandolin, even though I wouldn't be able to play it for a while anyway. I think I was crazy before the accident. That's why I suddenly decided to play the mandolin!

[greg_tsam]

Practice, practice practice then practice some more is the way to go but there is a short cut for beginners. Dip just the tips of your fingers in rubbing alcohol, briefly, then let them air dry. Just take a sec but will harden the skin until you can build callouses the right way.

I tried it when I started out or when I sawm so long and ripped my callouses off. Now I just have callouses under my callouses so I don't worry about it. I also learned how not to press so hard. Just hard enough to get tone.

My two cents, anyway.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Ed Hanrahan does have a good point. There's quite a difference in the pain from simple 'fingertip skin wear & tear' & bruised finger bones. Normal finger tip pain is sore to be sure,but bruised bone burns like h**l when you press on it. Be careful if you have this type of pain,because without resting up it can be very prolonged. I bruised my shinbone quite badly many years ago & it took years for the pain to subside. Just running my finger over the spot felt as if i had a blowtorch playing on my leg,
Ivan

[fatt-dad]

(didn't read all the replies.)

Check the action at the nut. If it's too high you'll continue to wear out, I don't care how good your callosus are.

Don't get too used to super low action from the bridge. You need some real-estate above the frets to womp on it without too much string buzz. Learning to womp is important too!

f-d

[JeffD]

Have patience. You will get there.

[andre66]

Seven months in to playing the mandolin, the pain is a fading memory, so hang in there!!

But I was hit by a car riding my bike to work last Tuesday, and broke my pinky, ring and middle fingers (along with my patella, but that's not much to complain about for having flown seven meters), so I'll be back to square one when I get started playing again. All I can think about these days is playing mandolin. Well, almost. I also think about getting another mandolin, even though I wouldn't be able to play it for a while anyway. I think I was crazy before the accident. That's why I suddenly decided to play the mandolin!

Glad you're ok after the accident! Maybe you can do right hand picking exercises to pass the time while waiting for your left hand to heal, hopefully your right hand wasn't injured as well.