Why cant they just leave us alone?

[swampstomper]

As for the hokum, hardcore bluegrass has always had an ample share of country corn over the years.

Yeah, but that feller could really frail the cowhide off the 5-string!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Quote - " ....this image of Steve Martin clapping on the porch in The Jerk.". I know the one,the part where he couldn't clap 'in time with the tune'. Well,in real life he's layed that devil to rest. Was that on the porch of the 'old ramshackle shack' or the 're-built ramshackle shack' ?,
Ivan

[mandolino maximus]

Yeah, Ol' Steve and the Steep Canyon Rangers put on a darned good concert - complete with a capella "I Can't Sit Down" and encore "Orange Blossom Speicial" which are smoking. Anyone here hear the bluegrass standard, "King Tut" at his concerts? (If I have to insert a smiley face here, well ... .)

So was Grandpa Jones bluegrass or was he the Taylor Swift of his generation?

[allenhopkins]

Come on now. This is a mando forum and promoting the mando is good.We really can't criticize the 80's hair bands for using a cow bell. Can we?

Not on the Cowbell Cafe, anyway...

With regard to the forum title: whaddaya mean, "leave us alone"? Only real bluegrass people (whoever they may be) are allowed to have banjos (of whatever variety), mandolins, acoustic bass and guitar etc. in their bands and on their videos? I remember oceans of ink (or pixels, or whatever) being spilled on the Cafe because Paul McCartney strummed a mandolin on Dance Tonight, with some actually resenting it because he didn't play it like a virtuoso or in the same way that most of us do.

I got interested in mandolin because I liked bluegrass, I liked bluegrass because I liked folk music and went to see a variety of "folk" acts (including bluegrass), I liked folk music because I heard the Kingston Trio sing Frank Proffitt's Tom Dooley on the AM radio. If some kid likes Taylor Swift's song, and then listens to Alison Krause or Rhonda Vincent, and picks up a mandolin or banjo and learns to play and enjoy bluegrass music, how exactly is that bad?

Loving and enjoying bluegrass does not and should not mean becoming the initiate of some obscure and dogmatic musical religion, with the main purpose of ID'ing and excluding heretics and keeping everything as "pure" as possible. Mean may be lousy bluegrass, but so what? We don't own the genre, or control access to "bluegrass" instruments and styles, and if there are "bluegrassy" songs around the edges, that get popular and attract people to the more "authentic" stuff, that's good, IMHO.

[journeybear]

Loving and enjoying bluegrass does not and should not mean becoming the initiate of some obscure and dogmatic musical religion, with the main purpose of ID'ing and excluding heretics and keeping everything as "pure" as possible.

+1 No, make that +10 No, make that +1,000,000! And if you don't mind, consider the effect of replacing "bluegrass" with "the mandolin," because the insrument is capable of playing so man styles that protection from the purism to which some wish to inflict upon it should not be limited to just one genre.

Mean may be lousy bluegrass, but so what? We don't own the genre, or control access to "bluegrass" instruments and styles, and if there are "bluegrassy" songs around the edges, that get popular and attract people to the more "authentic" stuff, that's good, IMHO.

Again I agree, except for just one aspect - I don't think this is or was meant to be bluegrass. I think Ms Swift or her bandmates or her producer - someone in the room - thought this would sound nice with this kind of instrumentation. I seriously doubt it went further nor deeper than that. In the post-Unplugged era, it is very common for bands whose usual sound is very electric to include one or two acoustic numbers on an album and a few in their show, for the sake of diversity and dynamics.

Or maybe this is a subtle way of addressing those who have taken her to task for not being "country" enough. (That's a whole 'nother gang of purists.) This sure is a step in that direction, intentionaly or not. BTW, those who quibble about hay bales, goats, the country-to-the-city theme in the lyrics ... I believe the imagery is just an attempt to have a setting (however cliched) in keeping with the instrumentation, and the lyrics utilize those terms to indicate the protagonist's evolution toward worldliness and sophistication, as contrasted with her tormentor's stagnant small-mindedness. That is, she is embracing the whole wide world beyond her home town's imitations, while the bully is left behind to strut in futile domination over his little dominion. Something like that.

[JeffD]

You can hate her but most people by far love her.

Most people do not play mandolin, and if they play anything, its guitar. So I am left out of "most people" right from the start.

She is helping us.

That is something I have been thinking about. I am leaning towards the idea that this video will have no effect at all.

[JeffD]

What is the BIG FEAR? Well, it is that those who might be interested in the real thing, will be turned off if their first exposures to something called bluegrass (a.k.a. something with a banjo in it), is Taylor Swift. Or, probably more likely, someone newly exposed to this stuff will claim to love bluegrass, especially Taylor Swift.

Well the former is not likely; those with real interest will not be destracted, and the latter is irrelevant.

What this video indicates to me is that "Big Country" is trying to court some of the fans of more traditional music, and naively thinks you can do it by sticking in a pseudo banjo and a mandoln. Well, notwithstanding a poor execution, the attempt indicates we (fans of more traditional music) have pehaps more infuence than we think.

[Andrew DeMarco]

musically vapid imho...

[johnny]

I don't like Taylor Swift, but how do you suggest people get in to bluegrass music? Trampled by Turtles was my first exposure to any bluegrass-like music, then I found out Jerry played in Old and in the Way, then I watched Grateful Dawg and the next thing I know I'm at bluegrass bandcamp learning actual bluegrass. Very few people are going to hear Bill Monroe on the radio or TV or from their friends. How do you expect people to find out about the music? You've got to start somewhere. And if one less person at the airport asks me 'is that a ukelele?', I might personally thank Taylor Swift.

[Mike Bunting]

Oops, double post.

[Mike Bunting]

Johnny, I suppose you won't be pleased with me when I tell you that I don't really care if more people get into bluegrass.

[Jim MacDaniel]

...And if one less person at the airport asks me 'is that a ukelele?', I might personally thank Taylor Swift.

I'm not sure it will have that effect; if anything, you might hear instead "Oh look, there's one of those neat ukuleles like in that Taylor Swift video"

[AlanN]

Johnny, I suppose you won't be pleased with me when I tell you that I don't really care if more people get into bluegrass.

You may not, but you can bet your broken E string that Adam Steffey, Del McCoury, 3TO and all the rest care (read: record buying public).

[Mike Bunting]

So?

[catmandu2]

musically vapid imho...

I don't think they were going so much for musical content, as much as for image.

Isn't "music" in so many different categories these days? I mean, with all the media (consumption)... Isn't this actually the vast bulk of "pop" music? (veneer with apparently little serious regard for content) -- regardless what instruments are shown and market being targeted? She seems like a cute girl, though.

[barney 59]

I don't know if Taylor Swift will last or not, (of course I don't). I do think she has talent and stage presence. As a child star she most certainly has been handled and marketed and is probably the cash cow for a small army of people who probably try and control her image and her for their own gain. She is pretty much, like Brittany, an industry all to herself and has had that responsibility all through her teenage life. The themes of her music are to me really immature but so what, so is she(or was) and she has been playing for an adolescent audience. Songs about school yard bullies and being "15". If, as she ages and her fan base ages, she adapts and matures she has the possibility of a very long career. She is marketed as a "Country" artist, country music doesn't tend to discard their artists when they get older like other pop styles of music, in fact reveres them and many become more popular ex-potentially as time goes by. If she blows up in scandal, being as she missed the prom and makes the mistakes as a young adult she should have made as a teenager all she has to do is sing a Gospel song and all will be forgiven ---Why? 'cause it's Country Music! We all make mistakes and we take turns,the devil tempts us and is powerful but we can find redemption and forgiveness when we screw up---That is the theme of country music-- People go to a George Jones or Loretta Lynn concert as if they were going for an audience with the Dalai Lama. Many "pop" artists have gravitated to country music when their careers begin to fade and find new life there. They are able to continue their careers pretty much forever by switching from London or LA to Nashville. She has a shot at having a long, long career if she wants it.

[Andrew DeMarco]

Yea, I agree that most of pop music these days is unchallenging from a sonic standpoint (maybe that's why it is accepted as pop (?), but that's another discussion).

I was highlighting that I don't like this song because it's just boring, not because she is encroaching on our bluegrass tradition by "abusing bluegrass instrumentation" as others may have alluded to.

[smokyt81]

finally got the link to work, and now I feel clued in on this thread. Problem is, not only is that four minutes I'm never gonna get back, this migraine just popped up out of nowhere...

[Chris Willingham]

Most of us may not like it, but it's hard to deny that Taylor Swift is, almost single handedly, turning younger kids onto playing instruments and writing songs.

Our banjo player, who teaches guitar and banjo, said about two years ago the number of girls taking lessons suddenly drastically outnumbered boys. Guess why? I suspect that would be the case elsewhere, too.

Granted, the majority might fumble through "white horse" and lose interest, but if Swift gets more kids playing actual music instead of standing in front of the TV playing Rock Band, isn't that a victory on some level?

[Charlieshafer]

Most of us may not like it, but it's hard to deny that Taylor Swift is, almost single handedly, turning younger kids onto playing instruments and writing songs.

Our banjo player, who teaches guitar and banjo, said about two years ago the number of girls taking lessons suddenly drastically outnumbered boys. Guess why? I suspect that would be the case elsewhere, too.

Granted, the majority might fumble through "white horse" and lose interest, but if Swift gets more kids playing actual music instead of standing in front of the TV playing Rock Band, isn't that a victory on some level?

This is a victory on a major level! I'm sort of surprised at some of the criticism here. On one hand, the hard-core trad folks want a slower instrumental speed than the modern barn-burners, and more emphasis on the song. Isn't that exactly what Swift is doing? Whether or not you like the song is irrelevant; she's using traditional instruments in a true "song" context. There's nothing but good things that can come out of her video here.

[catmandu2]

... if Swift gets more kids playing actual music instead of standing in front of the TV playing Rock Band, isn't that a victory on some level?

This is one of the points I brought forth in the infamous Jack White thread (albeit...to not great reception ). I think too many folks are invested in the "music* as it should be" attachment than to value this particular point of view.


*whatever that is...like I said, I personally see this type of media--benign as it is--not particularly as strong in the "music" categpry as in the "child multi-media star" catgeories...justin beiber, jonus brothers, what have you...I wouldn't get one's panties in a bunch over Taylor Swift invading bluegrass, or whatever the criticism is/was..

[catmandu2]

...she's using traditional instruments in a true "song" context.

To be more clear above, of course this is music--only meant that, in all the categories of music, I presume this is not intended for a serious folk/blues/bluegrass/whatever audience, but for the school-age cohort--which among other things is generally more disposed to image-machinery/marketing, etc..

If those serious about folk/blues/bluegrass/whatever are looking to this for content, PM me for advice..

See it for what it is.

[Dan Johnson]

http://www.cmt.com/videos/alan-jacks...hern-man.jhtml

reminds me of this one... AJ's such a faker with that washboard!

[Ed Goist]

"I was watching the coverage of the tornadoes backstage at rehearsals, and I wanted to do something for the families affected by the damage," says Taylor. "I've never opened a rehearsal to the public before, but I felt that inviting my fans to the last rehearsal for the Speak Now tour would be a great way to raise money."

In my book, this gives her a handful of trump cards.

Play on young lady, play on!

[Willie]

If some of you had your way there would only be "MUSIC" No definitions or anything like that, just music....

The younger crowd can get their feet wet into bluegrass by tuning in on satallite radio 24 hours a day, but some of what they play ain`t bluegrass....

I played on a festival one year and Grand Pa Jones was on the program and when he came on the stage most of the audience got up and left, he was an entertainer but certainly not bluegrass....