Hearing protection: seeking recommendations

**catmandu2** · Apr-21-2011, 12:51pm

Last night, the lead guitar player's volume spiked and aggravated my hemi-lateral hearing issue (created, as far as I can recollect, from another lead player years ago with his amp pointed directly at me at a practice).

As a drummer, I'm frequently exposed too close to amps -- as was the case last night. I'm at the point now that I must obtain protection if I'm going to keep playing out. Yes, should have done it years ago..

What products are folks using? Seeking recommendations, please.

**sunburst** · Apr-21-2011, 1:02pm

I was a drummer for many years in my youth and young adulthood. I remember the Marshal stack that the lead guitar player had, to my right and behind my drum set...
I started using Sonic Sound Filters and they helped. They were said to, and seemed to attenuate higher frequencies most, and those were the ear-splitting sounds for me in those days. They made everything sound really dull and lifeless, though, until I got used to them. I used them always, practice sessions, low volume situations, it didn't matter, if I was behind the drum set they were in my ears. Before long, the filtered sound was my 'new normal', the PA mix seemed fine again, all was well. On those occasions when I forgot to use them, the first notes, especially the first cymbal crashed were astoundingly loud and brash! Man, this stuff is noisy!

If you want to spend the money, I understand that there are similar products that are superior and adjustable for the frequencies you need attenuated, or are custom made for those frequencies, and if I was still a drummer and making all those hundreds of dollars per year, I might consider them, but the Sonic Sound Filters really helped me.

**catmandu2** · Apr-21-2011, 1:09pm

Thanks very much. Yes, I would of course prefer something like a filter affording both safety and also quality sound, but as I'm a poor musician and unable to afford nice stuff, I'll probably have to limit my purchase to $100 or less.

**catmandu2** · Apr-21-2011, 2:05pm

Just went down and saw my buddy at the drum shop .. he was out of Sonics, but had similar model low-cost rubber Hearos and Skull Screws, which will have to hold me over until I can afford those "Musician's" Plugs ... form-fitted from the audiologist .. about $150 clams. These have the variable filtering level.

He told me about his plugs -- which combine filtering with a monitor. He upgraded recently to a model with subwoofer. Dang, must be nice..

**Lou Giordano** · Apr-21-2011, 2:17pm

Your audiologist will probably tell you that protecting your ear canal is not enough. It is better than nothing but you can still get damage from the shock waves traveling through you scull. Don't know what to tell you, you can't very well wear a helmet.

I was told I did some damage in my firearm shooting days. I was wearing shooters headphones, but the impulse was going right through my cheek bones. That is according to my audiologist.

**sunburst** · Apr-21-2011, 2:33pm

When I was playing drums I tried to keep all my equipment, especially my sticks, away from my cheek bones...
I'm not sure how much of the sound of an amplified band and drum set are transmitted through the scull, but I assume (and hope) it is less than a shoulder fired firearm.

**250sc** · Apr-21-2011, 2:37pm

The cost of good protection is worth nearly any cost considering you can't make any money at all if you're a deaf musician.

**David Miller** · Apr-21-2011, 2:52pm

Originally Posted by 250sc

The cost of good protection is worth nearly any cost considering you can't make any money at all if you're a deaf musician.

That is, unless you are Beethoven...

**Brent Hutto** · Apr-21-2011, 2:53pm

I liked the textbook I read once which explained Beethoven wrote what are generally accepted as his finest chamber works "Late in his life after he was no longer encumbered by hearing".

**Lou Giordano** · Apr-21-2011, 3:15pm

Originally Posted by sunburst

When I was playing drums I tried to keep all my equipment, especially my sticks, away from my cheek bones...
I'm not sure how much of the sound of an amplified band and drum set are transmitted through the scull, but I assume (and hope) it is less than a shoulder fired firearm.

I was told ringing in your ears after a loud noise means damage has been done. I don't think it matters what bones are involved, bone can transmit the impulse.

I would not want anyone to loose the amount of hearing I have, or any amount for that matter.

**Andrew DeMarco** · Apr-21-2011, 3:25pm

Just for more info, when sound is transmitted to the cochlea through the skull (i.e. not through the auditory canal and middle ear it's called bone conduction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_conduction -- the degree to which it attenuates a sound is dependent on frequency.

**catmandu2** · Apr-21-2011, 3:53pm

Originally Posted by Lou Giordano

I was told I did some damage in my firearm shooting days.

Now that you mention it, I remember now long ago I was shooting a .357 without any hearing protection. That's likely the origin of my problem, now that I think of it.

**tnranger** · Apr-21-2011, 4:07pm

Google a product called Radians. It is designed for use when shooting, mowing, operating power tools, etc. It comes in 2 parts the consistency of silly putty. You mix the two thoroughly, then pack it in your ear (one ear at a time) pushing it into the canal then shaping it to fit the outer ear. It sets up in 10 min. Comes with a lanyard you can attach to keep up with them. There is a video on their web site that explains this better than I can. Several colors are available. I got mine off Amazon for $12.95 and free shipping. I'm going to try to make custom plugs for in ear monitors.

**Tim2723** · Apr-22-2011, 7:46am

That kind of product may be fine, but I admit it makes me shudder. Like do-it-yourself dentistry. I can't imagine spending thousands on instruments and equipment then getting cheap about hearing protection. Get thee to an audiologist.

**tnranger** · Apr-22-2011, 8:49am

The product has a 26db rating, and gets favorable reviews. The big advantage is comfort. I use regular foam plugs to mow or run the table saw. I have to fiddle with them to get them to seal and can only stand them in my ears for a short time.

Custom Westone ES1's from my local audiologist are $375. Since I'm not drilling any holes in my ear, I'm not too worried. To each his own, I guess.

**sunburst** · Apr-22-2011, 9:11am

I have a big ol' pair of ear muff type protectors (30db rating, made for flight line crews) that I use for mowing, any power tool, or any loud situation when I don't really need to hear, but I couldn't use that much hearing protection and still be able to play music. Playing music is a unique situation. When I'm running a chainsaw I just want all the protection I can get, when I'm playing music I want to hear what I'm doing and what the band is doing, and be able to blend with the music.

As an aside, some days when I was making really loud noise for many hours I used the foam plugs and the muffs, Wearing ear plugs under ear muffs transforms the world. Almost all ambient noise is gone, you can hear your skeleton move when you walk, it makes me feel like I've entered a chamber that shuts out the rest of the world... not the place I want to be to play music.

**250sc** · Apr-22-2011, 9:39am

Originally Posted by David Miller

That is, unless you are Beethoven...

Well, if it's good enough for Beethoven it's good enough for us. I don't think so. I also don't think Beethoven was wealthy (I'm too lazy to back that up with research) and am sure any musician would give any amount of money for their hearing back.

**Tim2723** · Apr-22-2011, 10:11am

I hope I wasn't sounding critical with my last post, but yeah, I have to agree with that last statement. Anyone would give anything for their ears back. It's just that I can't be one who would recommend an expensive case to protect a mandolin and then say not to spend the bucks to protect your ears. And it's not just protection. Many good products are out there to protect us from the sound of lawnmowers, gunshots, even jet engines, but a musician needs a very special kind of product. One that protects while allowing him to hear what he needs to hear, the way he needs to hear it.

We can save a few bucks by making a strap out of a bootlace, or cut up our credit cards for picks, but don't mess around when it comes to your hearing. Just my two cents.

**Jim Nollman** · Apr-22-2011, 11:57am

I have a different sense of this issue. It makes me mad to hear your story. What's more important to you, being able to hear for the rest of your life, or playing in a loud band for, at best, a year or two? Especially when the band could just as easily play less loud. There is no reason, these days, for a guitar player to feel its still necessary to get his amp humming (as it was in the days of tube amps and only mikes plugged into the sound system). You can always tell an egotistical guitar player, because his volume is masking all the other players, so they keep turning up to compete with him. which makes him turn up again, until the room sounds like mud.

Most rooms can't handle the sound level that tends to damage hearing. That is a straightforward matter of acoustics.

I have past experience playing with such guitarists. Many of them feel they are only half a man unless they turn it up beyond the pain level. It's often a matter of such delusional rock star identity, that trying to keep they guy happy at healthful volumes is a lost cause.

If I may state the irreverent: find another guitarist. Or at least try to teach your current guy to buy some pedals so he can get the same "sound" without having to move so much air.

Or make it really simple: put everything through the board as all the stadium players do. And place the speakers far enough way from you so that stage monitors become a necessity. And assign just one person — he who cares most how to balance your sound for an audience — to be in charge of the board. Don't let the guitarist be that person.

**D C Blood** · Apr-22-2011, 12:09pm

Take a walk down Lower Broad in Nashville, and you'll find out it ain't just rock musicians (oxymoron?) who want it loud...

**catmandu2** · Apr-22-2011, 1:22pm

Originally Posted by sunburst

...foam plugs and the muffs, Wearing ear plugs under ear muffs transforms the world. Almost all ambient noise is gone, you can hear your skeleton move when you walk, it makes me feel like I've entered a chamber that shuts out the rest of the world... not the place I want to be to play music.

The gig (which prompted this thread) on Wednesday was a 420 party. When the volume spiked, I went for the foam plug. As you mention, it pretty effectively plugs the hole in your head from the external environment...I could barely hear myself playing drums. This -- combined with a rather potent brownie -- made for a very weird and wild time.

**catmandu2** · Apr-22-2011, 1:36pm

Originally Posted by Jim Nollman

I have a different sense of this issue. It makes me mad to hear your story. What's more important to you, being able to hear for the rest of your life, or playing in a loud band for, at best, a year or two? Especially when the band could just as easily play less loud. There is no reason, these days, for a guitar player to feel its still necessary to get his amp humming (as it was in the days of tube amps and only mikes plugged into the sound system). You can always tell an egotistical guitar player, because his volume is masking all the other players, so they keep turning up to compete with him. which makes him turn up again, until the room sounds like mud.

Most rooms can't handle the sound level that tends to damage hearing. That is a straightforward matter of acoustics.

I have past experience playing with such guitarists. Many of them feel they are only half a man unless they turn it up beyond the pain level. It's often a matter of such delusional rock star identity, that trying to keep they guy happy at healthful volumes is a lost cause.

If I may state the irreverent: find another guitarist. Or at least try to teach your current guy to buy some pedals so he can get the same "sound" without having to move so much air.

Or make it really simple: put everything through the board as all the stadium players do. And place the speakers far enough way from you so that stage monitors become a necessity. And assign just one person — he who cares most how to balance your sound for an audience — to be in charge of the board. Don't let the guitarist be that person.

Jim, I appreciate your observation--this was the feeling of the other guitar player in the band, as well. It was a big room and the sound was indeed all over the place and muddy. Yes, it's so difficult to control for everyone's playing. Best policy is to make it our responsibility for our own protection. Fortunately, I had a pack of foam plugs with me.

The week before (with a different band), I had no plugs with me...fortunately, we were on the floor and I was able to scoot my keyboards and me several feet away from the band and partially behind a segment of wall--after the lead player turned up his volume halfway though the gig. I was lucky there was an envrionmental respite that night -- usually, there isn't such an easy environmental solution. When the keys player has to virtually set up in a hallway, you'd think the other players might wonder what's up?

I love playing in rooms where the sound guys take care of everything just as you mention--through the mains. No such venue, though, on this night.

**Mandobart** · Apr-23-2011, 1:03pm

I've worked in steam power plants all my life, lots of noise at various frequencies. Also use power tools and ride motorcycles, as well as amplified music. My job requires annual audiograms to detect any hearing loss. So far, after ~25 years of this, my hearing loss is no greater than what is considered normal for the aging process. I've always used the insertable foam ear plugs (required at the plant) when at work, mowing the lawn, riding my bike, etc. A shooting magazine many years ago rated these as the best for hearing protection, especially if used with muffs as well. Hearing loss can be the result of a single acute exposure, but seems is more often caused by chronic exposure to high noise levels. So protect your hearing not only when playing, but also when using power tools, attending loud concerts, shooting, etc.

**Jim Nollman** · Apr-23-2011, 6:29pm

I love playing in rooms where the sound guys take care of everything just as you mention--through the mains. No such venue, though, on this night.

Sure a sound guy helps. Usually a lot. But this is not impossibly difficult to set up and stick to a workable sound reinforcement plan on your own. Maybe the most difficult parts of it are (1) getting all band members to agree to give up individual control of their own volume, and (2) run everything through a board.

My own band is all over 50, so maybe we have enough painful experience with hearing issues and sound balance to have quickly agreed to always go through the board. If you are all using "modern" guitar and keyboard amps (with lots of choices for i/o), the total sound will inevitably be much better balanced than letting all the individual players have control over their own mega-wattage noise maker.

Personally, I don't see how its even possible for a band member, while in the act of playing, to have any good idea how the entire BAND sounds to the audience. Set up the sound for the audience, then use monitors to let each player hear whatever he chooses to hear. And if he/she still needs to turn it up, use trickery so it only increases volume at the monitors. Workable monitors can be cheap. Get enough of them, so the noisy person can only destroy his own hearing. Or get a really cheap monitor, so it will blow up before that happens.