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Thread: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

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    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
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    Default 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Listened to a 1934 Gibson F5 Fern on a Youtube clip the other day, and the sound just blew me away even through the mediocre sound quality of the clip! I'd like to know from all the well informed good people at the cafe what distinguishes the sound quality of these instruments from the Loars, apart from the individuality of each instrument. And are there big structural differences in construction/graduation etc?
    Thanks,
    John

  2. #2

    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    If you would be so kind......what is the link to the Youtube video ?

    Thanks

    David

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    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Not to be negative but I wasn`t overly impressed with the sound of that `37 Fern...On that U Tube site there are others to click on and when comparing them all the Fern just didn`t come up to snuff....Thats just my opinion and I`m sure others will like a different sound than I do....I loved the sound of the Loar A-5, I believe thats is the first time I have ever heard a clip of that mandolin...I am still looking for a dealer of the Kentucky KM-900 (said to be a great replica of the A-5) so I can compare that with the A-5, if it is as good as the company says I want one.....

    Willie

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    Celtic Bard michaelpthompson's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    I rather liked the sound of it. Nice tone, good sustain, nice ringing quality, woody undertones. Wish he would have picked a little more, that would have added to it.

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    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    This is a '34 Fern not a '37 Fern. They didn't make Ferns in '37 as they went back to the flowerpots aka "Hoss" and "The Dave".
    This '34 Fern does seem to have plenty of power with lots of punch and cut with sustain and bottom end. This is one of those 30's F5s that is more like the '28 and '29 Ferns. By this time it's likely there was only one guy left from the Loar days that could build the F5 models. They sure didn't make many F5s from 1930 to 1939. Them was some lean years at Gibson for mandolins.
    You want to compare a $900 Kentucky 900 A-5 with a $350,000 Gibson A-5? Go for it. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on that comparision.

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    Registurd User pjlama's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Quote Originally Posted by f5loar View Post
    You want to compare a $900 Kentucky 900 A-5 with a $350,000 Gibson A-5? Go for it. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on that comparision.
    I busted a gut on that one

    BTW, that Zeb Snyder is something else!
    PJ
    Stanley V5

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Wish it were mine - Period !!,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

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    Registered User Bill Halsey's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kinn View Post
    Listened to a 1934 Gibson F5 Fern on a Youtube clip the other day, and the sound just blew me away even through the mediocre sound quality of the clip! I'd like to know from all the well informed good people at the cafe what distinguishes the sound quality of these instruments from the Loars, apart from the individuality of each instrument. And are there big structural differences in construction/graduation etc?
    Thanks,
    John
    I think this is a very good topic. From my notes are tonal assessments of the following:

    A c.'31 Fern: "Fairly balanced, good volume, responsive. Moderate overtones."

    A c.'27 Fern: "Loud, clear, round highs & mids; tight, nasal G. Moderately good overtones."

    A 9 July '23 Loar: "Characteristic Loar tone, but tight. Even, bright on upper; decent woodiness on bottom, not overly so. Good volume reserve, can be pushed."

    I examined & compared all three of these fine instruments on the same day. The '23 Loar had all the essential qualities of that era -- it just needed to be played in. The two Ferns were good, responsive instruments; just not as well balanced (esp. the '31), and certainly not the same kind of tonality as the instruments of the Loar era. All fine instruments, but the Loar was characteristic of its period and the later ones were not.

    The plate graduations on all three were pretty much within spec., although some of the details of workmanship in the Ferns had wandered away from the typical Loar years -- particularly, the overstand at the 15th fret had diminished from 15/32" on the Loar, to as little as 5/16" on the later ones.
    ~Bill~
    "Often wrong, but never in doubt."
    --Ivy Baker Priest

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    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Quote Originally Posted by pjlama View Post
    I busted a gut on that one

    BTW, that Zeb Snyder is something else!
    I like his sister too.

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    In The Van Ben Milne's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Sounds great.

    Bill, by overstand do you mean the block under the FB raised off the top?
    Hereby & forthwith, any instrument with an odd number of strings shall be considered broken. With regard to mix levels, usually the best approach is treating the mandolin the same as a cowbell.

  13. #12
    Registered User Bill Halsey's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Right, the height of the riser block (known at the factory as the "half-moon block") at the 15th fret x-pc.
    ~Bill~
    "Often wrong, but never in doubt."
    --Ivy Baker Priest

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    Registered User 300win's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    I listened to the you-tube video, and was more impressed by the tone of the new Sam Bush model, although the young man picking the old Fern was great, and the guy who was playing the Gibson Sam Bush model was mediocre at best, for my ears the SB model had more of the 'ooommmppphhh' I want to hear in a mandolin. Everybody is differant, ain't it grand !

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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    I wouldnot expect the $900 Kentucky to be the equal of the original A-5, all I want to do is compare it to see if what a lot of peole are saying about it being a close replica...Tom, I understand that you are a Gibson man and thats great and I don`t mean to bad mouth their products, I just stated that I thought the `34 Fern didn`t sound as good as some of the other mandolins on those clips, that don`t mean it isn`t a nice instrument, I just wasn`t all that impressed with it and the speakers on computers are not the best as you may well know....

    I also noticed that the `34 Fern has position dots on the fret board starting with the first fret and any other I have seen, which isn`t nearly as many as you have laid eyes on, start at the fifth fret...Is that normal or could that mandolin have a new fingerboard or just been altered?

    I have always read and taken your post`s as gospel and will keep doing so, sometimes people just take things on here the wrong way..... I just post my opinions and will keep doing so as long as I am a member on here and would never expect everyone to agree with them....

    Willie

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    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    300win: You are so right. It's a great thing that we all here different things in an instrument. If it wasn't like that, one model would be sufficient To me the 34 Fern sounds better than the Bush model. For me there is something in the sound of a (relatively) old instrument that is unmatched in a new one, some ancient tone that I can't put my finger on or try to describe. And that 34 Fern has it in spades! I hope that whoever has it, plays it.

    Wille: Just saw your post 5 minutes before mine. I don't think anyone felt that you badmouthed Gibson. As I understood you, you spoke highly of the Griffith Loar. I have also heard that one from different clips, and it sounds great. But I still maintain my fondness of the sound of the 34 Fern. As 300win stated, we are all different, and that's the great thing about it. I don't mean to say that there aren't good and bad mandolins, but we don't always agree upon which ones are best of the good ones.

    I love the posts from the people on the cafe who has been part of the mandolin history themselves, and who have played or owned lots of great mandolins. In my country to play many good instruments is impossible, so being a mando enthusiast isn't easy. That's why being on this forum is so great.
    Take care!
    John

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    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    The dot at the first fret was common on F5s for a few years starting around late 1928 and onto until the block inlays that begain at the 3rd fret and then later in 1937 at the first fret. There were a few years in there you would see both types.

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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    F5 Loar, thanks for that info....It sure is funny how something like dot placements can change the look of a mandolin that you are used to seeing a little different...That just popped right out to me...I had a friend that repaired and built banjos and he placed the Mastertone block on a different fret than normal and people really thought there was a big difference between that and another Gibson RB-4`s...

    Willie

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    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    I forgot to mention they also made dot fingerboards starting at the 3rd fret during this era. It's sometimes hard to tell if fingerboards are original or not to the prewars as when they were returned for fret jobs at the factory they usually got the fingerboard of the month put on instead of trying to match what was original on it. There are several Loars found with block inlayed fingerboards on them.

  20. #19
    Closet Banjo Picker P.D. Kirby's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    F5loar, Do you have any pictures of the Loars with block inlays? That would be a sight to behold IMHO, I have always been a big fan of the block inlay look and to see it on a Loar would be sheer bliss.
    Never Argue with an Idiot, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Quote Originally Posted by pjlama View Post
    I busted a gut on that one

    BTW, that Zeb Snyder is something else!
    In relative terms, most mandolin players are doing the same exercise when shopping for a new instrument. Comparing an instrument in the $1,000-$25,000 price range to one that is valued at 10-100 times that. If someone wants a Loar-like tone, but their budget is only $1,000, they should still go out and try to find the tone that compares most favorably to their desired tone within their budget.

    Back to Ferns, I have heard from a knowledgable source that there is less consistency amongst the Ferns -- that while many are great, there are also a fair number of dogs mixed in among the lot. I personally have no first hand experience with Ferns, but thought I would offer what knowledge I do have to the OP regarding the original question.

  22. #21
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Thank you draino! From what you say I must assume that the Ferns are more inconsistent than the Loars, and I must assume that the specs are different. F5loar: Was there really one decent F5 builder left at Gibson in 1934, or was that a joke?
    Thanks!
    John

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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    I`m not trying to upset the apple cart or start any arguements ...

    ....BUT.....

    Can one mandolin be 350,000 times better than one that claims to be a replica? The Gibson A-5 Loar is valued at $350,000 and the Kentucky so called replica, KM-900, is a little less than $1,000....That is one huge comparision with a big gap....Not having played either one I don`t know but I can`t fathom any mandolin being that much better than any other....Sheeez...

    Willie

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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    I have no dog in this fight, but Willie, buddy, you're in the wrong business....

  25. #24
    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    The biggest reason for a value of $350,000 on the A-5 is the fact that there is only ONE in existence. Whether or not it sounds better than any modern mandolin is almost beside the point. The fact that it sounds and plays beautifully is expected from a Loar signed instrument.
    Jammin' south of the river
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  26. #25
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1934 Gibson F5 Fern

    Lots of ting and ding, not enough bing. For a Gibson anyway.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

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