locking tuners for mando...WHY NOT????

[i-vibe]

getting ready to change some strings and i'm thinking.....w 8 tuning machines it sure would nice to have some "lockers" on there.

i've got a set of staggered height SPERZELS on my Strat and love 'em. cuts string changes to half time/nice clean look/and they hold their tuning great.

so why hasn't this approach been brought over to the mandoville????

has anyone installed a set on a mando? seems the smaller 6 in line style could work...hmmm.

[Rick Cadger]

Personally, I don't see the need. Once you get the knack for locking the strings in place by trapping the end under the first winding, and making sure you don't have more than a couple of wraps around the post, I find mando tuners stay completely stable with no slippage. Issues are, IMHO, more likely to occur due to binding in a poorly cut nut than with string slippage at the tuner, assuming a correctly fitted string.

I used to use locking Sperzels on my old Yamaha Pacifica, and I loved them. For mandolin I wouldn't bother even if they were widely and cheaply available.

YMMV.

[Bertram Henze]

Don't know...
- tying the strings is not what takes a significant percentage of my restringing time
- I have zero slippage on mine - strings go out of tune only slightly and only under changing humidity/temperature conditions

[Perry]

i've got a set of staggered height SPERZELS on my Strat and love 'em. cuts string changes to half time/nice clean look/and they hold their tuning great

Yeah why not? I had these on a Don Grosh Retro Strat and they were da bomb!
Changing strings and "stretch" break in was super fast.

[Andy Miller]

I'd go for a set of locking tuners only if they were no more bulky than a regular set of mandolin tuners. So it probably ain't gonna happen. . .

[Douglas McMullin]

Personally, I don't see the need. Once you get the knack for locking the strings in place by trapping the end under the first winding, and making sure you don't have more than a couple of wraps around the post, I find mando tuners stay completely stable with no slippage.

Ditto. A complete string change using this method takes very little time, and it keeps it simple.

[Strado Len]

Rather than locking tuners, I think a locking nut would be a better fix, considering the tendency of mandolin strings to stick in the nut.

[Pete Summers]

Some years ago an enterprising engineer invented a steel piano pin block. It used threaded steel tuning pins that could be locked down by tightening them into the block with a screwdriver, just like any other metal screw. The idea was to make the tuning more stable than customary piano tuning pins and wooden blocks. Interesting idea that went immediately into the toilet. I suppose it was just unnecessary and died in the patent office.

While slipping tuners can contribute marginally to string instruments going out of tune, by and large it is the stretching of the strings and the expansion and contractions of the wooden parts that causes them to lose their tuning. At least, that's my understanding. Thus, I would expect the steel bodied mandolins to have fewer tuning problems?? And I expect carbon fiber instruments will have an advantage in that regard also.

[EdHanrahan]

Let's see... If I can shrink a Bigsby-style whammy-bar down to the size of a Gibson mandolin tailpiece, then there'd be a real need for locking 4-up mandolin tuners. Wow! I could get rich just trying to keep up with the demand. Hey, there could be as many as, oh, six people that would want such a set-up! RICH, I tell you!

[TonyP]

I've never had "locking" tuners, and being a mando only picker never heard of them. When I looked on the Sperzel site it was a little hard for me to grasp how they lock. It would have been nice to have pic's instead of the explanation.

So what I gather is it's like a threaded rod that's inside of the string post of the tuner, with a hole in it that the string goes through? And when you tighten the knob on the back of the tuner it pulls that rod down to clamp the string between that rod, and the string post?

If that's true, it would seem there would be several problems trying to adapt that to traditional tuners. #1 being that you'd have to go through where there is the locking screw for the worm gear, and #2, there's not as much room between the tuners to get my paws in there to effectively tighten those knobs it would seem. But never having used one, I don't know how much pressure it takes to get them to lock.

It's hard to see exactly how big the Sperzel's are, but, couldn't you install them instead of the standard 4 on a plate tuners that are standard to mando's right now?

[mandroid]

see below [double post]

[mandroid]

An E mando should be your next purchase ..
A solid body electric is where those sort of non traditional parts are utilized

I have one of Peter Mix's CF Mandolins, stays in tune pretty well throughout the night,
and the next one too.
tuners are traditional on it.
James Tailpiece, makes the string swap pretty quick, a peg winder speeds it up more.

[Andy Miller]

I like locking tuners just for the small convenience afforded at string-changing time. And they do eliminate a possible source of slack/slippage where the string winds/locks around the traditional post. I'm not saying they save anyone hours per string change, it's more like minutes. And I know the slack and slippage are avoidable with traditional tuners - I avoid them the same way others have mentioned below. I just think the locking-tuner idea is a good one, and I'd love to see it adapted with elegance to work on a traditional-looking mandolin - much like the Bill James tailpiece solves a couple of non-critical annoyances yet still looks right on a Gibson-style mandolin.

Tony, you've pretty much got the idea of how they work. And there are other makes of locking tuners. I'm sure there are some that would fit on a mandolin headstock as you suggest. But I'm sure not about to go out and buy two sets of them in order to obtain one set of tuners that will look goofy on my Hilburn!

[EdHanrahan]

The original intent of locking tuners, AFAIK, is to compensate for those heavy-metal whammy bars that allow the string to be fully de-tuned, and allow Eddie Van Halen to "dive bomb" his solos. The problem, at least in comparison to traditional Fender or Gibson/Bigsby styles, is that fully releasing tension from the string allows it to, well, "unlock" from it's own tension on the post, and thus creep a bit. Since no self-respecting string will ever wind itself tighter, the normal result is that the string pulls thru the post hole, and thus de-tunes a bit, and eventually a lot. The locking tuner post prevents that slippage.

A locking nut would prevent such slippage, but would ALSO prevent tuning! That's why those heavy-metal whammy-bars include fine-tuners at the bridge, sort of like the fine-tuners on a violin's tailpiece.

I doubt that increasing the weight of a mando's headstock would prove very popular, or folks would already be putting the guitar tuners there.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/G...el_Tuners.html

[Big Joe]

WHY NOT?
2 reasons. First, they are not needed. Second, the excess weight would alter the response of the instrument, and not necessarily in a good way.

[TonyP]

I like most who have commented, don't have a problem with tuner/string slippage, and my Newson F5 tends to stay in tune most of the time. But I could see how this string lok idea would appeal. Being the simple guy I am, if I was going to do it, I'd simply drill and tap the end of the string post and put a set screw in there. I already carry a allen wrench for my home made arm rest, so another in the pocket on my case would be no big deal. But since I'm not needing that enough to overcome my current satisfaction with how my tuners are, the need vs laziness quotient is towards status quo. It is an interesting thought though.

[foldedpath]

Aside from the fact that it's basically one half of a two-part system involving whammy bars (which we don't need), I think it's worth asking why they don't show up on acoustic guitars? If they had any utility for acoustic instruments, one would think that's where we'd see them migrate first.

Me, I'd rather see enclosed gear tuners for mandolins that worked better than the traditional ones, and were compact and lightweight enough to replace them. I have them on my acoustic-electric Breedlove mandola, where the size and weight isn't an issue because it's a 4-string. So nice to use...

[i-vibe]

"Aside from the fact that it's basically one half of a two-part system involving whammy bars "

well it CAN be...or just as easily it can be on gtr w a hard tail brdg ( no tremelo) as on my strat. no dive bombing for me. the big appeal for me is the quicker string changes and that for some reason it does seem to take much less time for strings to stretch and settle in.

and THAT's the appeal for me re it's application on mando. i only mentioned the tuning stability/lack of slippage advantage that these affordat as an added bonus.

i too use the over under string lock winding method so no string slipping... it ain't a problem w a well adjusted nut. i was merely pointing out another possible advantage as in belt and suspenders.

the added weight is a good point. hadn't thought about that.

i'm with alltuner who opined....

"I like locking tuners just for the small convenience afforded at string-changing time. And they do eliminate a possible source of slack/slippage where the string winds/locks around the traditional post. I'm not saying they save anyone hours per string change, it's more like minutes."

yep, they are definitely a time saver. and that's w six, sooooo....

[mandroid]

See 8 sealed 12 string type tuners on my picking buddy's TC 'Zouk,
the balance thing, long neck, makes that a reasonable OEM spec.

[adlerburg]

Ditto. A complete string change using this method takes very little time, and it keeps it simple.

+2
There's no need for locking mechanisms.. won't save anything and add weight.
I have them on an electric with a tremolo cuz I don't want a locking nut.. but there's no need here in mandoland

[rico mando]

i have locking tuners on a 4 string electric i built and find no benefit from them . better off spending your money on some high end non-locking ones

[Perry]

WHY NOT?
2 reasons. First, they are not needed. Second, the excess weight would alter the response of the instrument, and not necessarily in a good way.

Do locking tuners weigh more then Waverly's? Heck they may even be lighter.

[adlerburg]

Do locking tuners weigh more then Waverly's? Heck they may even be lighter.

They absolutely do. Waverlys do not noticeably weigh any more than any other tuner... schaller, gotoh, etc.. but locking tuners weigh more than any non locking... substantially.. in my experience.
Now of course I'm speaking of guitar tuners.. as I've never been aware of any locking tuners for mando

[Perry]

Still despite popular opinion I'd like to see some actual weight comparisons. Aren't Sperzel's aluminum and Waverly's die cast?

[adlerburg]

Still despite popular opinion I'd like to see some actual weight comparisons. Aren't Sperzel's aluminum and Waverly's die cast?

The lockers are all heavier than the regular (courtesy of the stew mac site)
Waverly open back tuners 4060 6.176 oz. (175.09 grams)
Gover open back tuners 4592 5.632 oz. (159.667 grams)
Planet Waves Locking tuners 5280 11.072 oz. (313.891 grams)
Sperzel Locking tuners 3421 7.35 oz. (208.384 grams)