Triplets, triplets, triplets

[MikeB]

This is one of those hair-splitting questions that nobody seems to mind around here, thankfully, so here goes....

Triplets, strings of them, in particular, which probably occur more in Celtic music than most other genres. #I've practiced them, ad nauseum, picking DUD UDU DUD--and/or picking off or hammering on the second two notes of the triplet. #Seems like there is a big difference in the clarity and execution of the two approaches (especially mine). #

Well, as if that weren't enough trouble for me, I just ran across some instructional material that suggests picking the first note, usually a right hand downstroke, hammering on (or picking off) the second one, then picking the third, an upstroke. #This seemed like a perfect compromise between the other methods mentioned above--until I discovered that it only works when the first two notes of the triplet occur on the same string. #I do get the best sound from this technique, where it will work, but DANG, this stuff gets so complicated sometimes....

Now my fingers (and brain) are all tangled up between picking and hammering and picking off. #

What I'm wondering is if I should be practicing ALL of this, until I can intuitively decide--on the fly--which approach to use, or if I'd be better off focusing my efforts on one method over another.

Some days this just seems so dauntingly complex. # Maybe I just needed to write it down here, cry in my beer, so to speak, and get back to playing. # #

[seanh]

or you could pick down up and then up with your middle finger. The third note sounds a little muted but you can wear a finger pick on your midle finger. I took me a while to get used to it but it works well.

[danb]

Try the techniques one at a time, ad nauseum. Eventually they will sink in. It's not something you should worry about intuition for, instead try to train your hands to do the tricks. Do them A LOT, over and over. Fingers start to remember, and then you suddenly notice they are doing it on their own.. Try to accelerate that by playing distracted. Watch TV.. listen to the radio, sit outside and watch traffic while you play. Distracting myself is one of my favorite learning tricks..

[POB]

Distracting myself is one of my favorite learning tricks..

That's really good advice. Sometimes if you concentrate too hard, you tense up and that's totally ruinous to your technique, especially for something like triplets that require fluidity.

[Arto]

Distracting... that´s interesting. On the other hand, I have heard comments that you should concentrate on playing when you practice, so that you wouldn´t just get the bad habits imbedded deeper. I sometimes have practiced tremolo when watching TV. Don´t know if it has made me any good - certainly has not done any good for family members´nerves!

greetings, Arto

[POB]

I think the idea is that you concentrate a lot initially so that the basic technique is ingrained into your subconscious and muscle memory, then you do the distracted thing so that your fingers really learn to do it on their own, without your conscious brain getting involved and stressing them out / slowing them down. Is that the general idea, danb?

Playing while the family are watching the TV is definitely a guaranteed way to get zero co-operation the next time you want to buy another mando.

[danb]

POB, exactly. Your mileage may vary, but for me the idea of "not thinking about it" is akin to driving.. you watch the road on the horizon and make minute subconscious adjustments to get there, you don't watch the pavement right in front of your bumper.

Harder to steer if you sweat every pebble on the road

You'll get the individual sounds ok when you play with attention to the minutae, but rarely the "flow" you want. The biggest trick to triplets is to not let them mess up your rhythm. Actually the best way to practice that is to not stop when you make mistakes, to train yourself to recover. Losing the beat would be akin to driving off the road, where missing a triplet is just hitting a small bump.

[POB]

The driving analogy reminds me of my driving instructor who, once we had covered the basics of the car's controls and the rules of the road, used to insist on keeping to me constantly engaged in conversation while I was driving during lessons. It was for the same reason - by getting the gear changing, indicating, mirror work and all that stuff completely into my subconcious, I could get some "flow" and smoothness into my driving.

If you're playing a tune and your thinking of the triplet that's looming two bars ahead, you're going to be pretty tense by the time you get there, if you get there at all.

[MikeB]

Man, I love this site! #I shouldn't be surprised (but I was) by the sincerity and warmth (and humor) in these replies.

I love the way you get totally contradictory answers (pay attention, no, get distracted), and somehow they MAKE SENSE!

I've been sick all week. #If nothing else, you guys have lifted my spirits.

Dan, has anyone ever considered compiling some of the best threads archived here into a comprehensive, Zen-motorcycle, Whole Earth Mandolin Encyclopedia? # It is my impression that just about every detail ever imagined concerning mandolins and playing them has been covered--IN DETAIL--at the site. #

[craigtoo]

I practiced this exercise with a sock (usually clean) tucked under the strings while watching TV. The sock cut down on the noise and didn't tick off my rooomate too bad...

Jig Rhythm
pick dir D(udu) D U D D(udu)
Beat 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3

Then I added fingerings.. different notes etc. after 4 years I've just started with some hammers and pulls (tried them a while ago but never really could get em right...)

Thats where I am now.
craig...

[Dfyngravity]

well lets see here.....triplets strung together. i the time signature of 6/8 your strokes are usually to be DUD DUD and so on. This gives it the bouncy celtic like feeling. I sometimes apply this to triplets that are strung together, it gives it a pretty cool effect. Triplets can be very difficult if you don't practice so I would just suggest working on doing hammer-ons and pull-offs and other ways of doing triplets. Just find a way that suites you and try to keep with it.

[TeleMark]

well lets see here.....triplets strung together. i the time signature of 6/8 your strokes are usually to be DUD DUD and so on. This gives it the bouncy celtic like feeling. I sometimes apply this to triplets that are strung together, it gives it a pretty cool effect. Triplets can be very difficult if you don't practice so I would just suggest working on doing hammer-ons and pull-offs and other ways of doing triplets. Just find a way that suites you and try to keep with it.

Isn't this Tarantella picking? This is one of the first things I learned when I started lessons a couple of months ago, and it's still a challenge.

TeleMark

[jlb]

I don't have any techniques to add, but a word of encouragement...DON'T GET DISCOURAGED. Through practice and repetition, the most awkward technique will become second nature.

I can remember trying to learn George Shuffler's DDU picking technique while playing guitar at the request of my band leader at the time. I got a little book on the subject, but it seemed like I could never do it. I practiced and practiced, while watching TV, even without an instrument around. The one day. POP! I could do it, and I could do it fast.

The brain body connection is an amazing thing. If a picking technique is humanly possible, you can do it through repetition.

[MikeB]

Hey, jlb. THAT'S the kind of encouragement I always like to hear! I hope that applies regardless of age....THANKS!!!

[Colin Irvine]

Mike - I'm used to hearing the word "triplets" in the context of reels, or other tunes in regular time. So, a half-bar in a reel which would normally be played DUDU would be played DUDUD with the last three notes played over the same interval as the second DU in the first instance. I've seen fiddle, banjo and mandolin players do this with the left hand, but it is much better to do it with the right (assuming you're right handed). The secret is to get it right slowly then gradually speed up, always keeping it relaxed. It took me at least a year to get up to speed, but now to get a triplet my right hand just sort of shivers and the triplet's there. It's a goal worth aiming for IMHO.

If by triplets you mean normal 6/8 time, then I would always play these DUD anyway, to keep the rythmn.

[MikeB]

Thanks, Colin. #I did mean triplets as they occur in reels and the hornpipes--the 4/4 stuff, mostly. # i play jigs DUD DUD, like *most* people, too.

But, I've been experimenting with every conceivable way to play these 4/4 triplets. #For ME, I'm finding the
<D, hammer on/or pull off, U> sequence is, by far, the smoothest technique for playing triplets whose first two notes (at least) fall on the same string. #This seems to cover most of them--so far. # My pick direction and speed do not change at ALL. #This surprised me, but when you play a triplet in the time of two eigth notes, the first and last notes of the triplet are synchronous with the two eigths, are they not? #There is *perhaps* a slight emphasis change, but I'm not sure yet if that is just from my not being used to this trick.

No arguments from me, here, just sharing a discovery that seems to be expanding and improving my playing. #I got this suggestion from a Mel Bay book on Mandolin Tecniques and Studies. #I didn't make it up. # Seems to work for me! #

[Colin Irvine]

You're right - if the main notes are in quavers then you actually play the triplet as two semi-quavers and a quaver, even though it's normally written as three quavers. What's even worse is that, as the last quaver is now on a D, you actually have to be as quick as if you were playing two more semi-quavers in order to get back up ready to play the next normal pair of quavers as DU!

What you're doing at the moment is fine, and is what many fiddlers do (they just keep a steady bow and let the left hand do the work). However, most fiddlers love it when you go up to them after a performance and say "I see you play your triplets the proper way" (that is, if they have - with the bow!). It's professional pride. I think that's why I'm commending it to you. I'm really setting myself up here, but I think a mandolin player who can play proper triplets has moved up a grade!

You'll probably know the Silver Spear - sheet music here http://thesession.org/tunes/display.php/182
It's a great tune on which to learn your triplets. Post an MP3 in a year and I'll wire you the money for a beer!

[MikeB]

Thank you, Colin. #Time (and practice) will tell if I deserve this commendation, but for now, it feels like I've advanced a notch, or so. #

I might add that I do play some tunes where this new trick will NOT work, i.e., when a triplet crosses strings after the first note played. #But, I'm finding that I just play what needs to be played in that case, as with any other tricky fingering for a particular tune. #

These little breakthroughs come so seldom to me, I can't help but to pipe up here when I get one.

[Colin Irvine]

These little breakthroughs come so seldom to me, I can't help but to pipe up here when I get one.

Thereby no doubt helping some who haven't made that particular breakthrough yet. Win/win I'd say.