No-Bevel Wegen

**mandobassman** · Feb-05-2011, 11:45am

I have been using a Wegen TF 140 lately. The volume is unbelievable compared to the 1.2mm celluloid I have used previously. However, I'm not too crazy about the bevel. I never have liked a bevel. Has anyone out there used a Wegen without a bevel and the TF 140 in particular? I'm wondering how different it sounds than with a bevel. In case you're wondering, I posted a photo of the pick I'm referring to.

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**Ivan Kelsall** · Feb-06-2011, 2:12am

I used the Wegen 1.4mm Bluegrass picks for a while & i found that the large bevel was too much. It didn't fit my picking action,so, i filed it off to a much smaller area & buffed it up with my wife's nail buffer & it worked very well. A few days back,i got my 1.00mm thick Wegen Bluegrass picks,ordered from Janet Davis music. Being thinner,they have a much smaller bevel & for me they're the finest picks i've used to date,
Ivan

**Bernie Daniel** · Feb-06-2011, 9:46am

You could try the TF-120 or TF-100 (1.2 and 1.0 mm of course) which are the same shape and size. I find these to be great picks too. I do happen to like the bevel -- but the thinner versions seem less obviously so cut.

The Wegen TF-140's is still my goto mandolin pick -- but I like the two thinner ones too and switch back and forth between them on mandola, octave and mandocello.

I use the TF-100 for guitar and tenor guitar --- but I still have not found a Wegen for the tenor banjo! They are all too pointed.

**mandroid** · Feb-06-2011, 11:18am

Just off the top of my head .. have you contacted the producer of this product?
Given the beveling is just a step in the making these items, it can be omitted .

**CES** · Feb-06-2011, 11:58am

I have not personally tried a "no bevel" Wegen, but I would think that the tone would be the same as that produced by the bevelled ones, though if you don't like the bevel you may find that your tone improves without it...

I love the 140s for mandolin and flatpicking guitar, but have started using the 120s more on guitar when primarily strumming and also on my pancake, which I have to use lighter strings on. I've tried the gator grip picks as well, and if they were a little bit larger I think they'd be my second favorite behind the Wegens...their bevel is not as pronounced, but they sound pretty good once the coating wears off the picking surface...

**mandobassman** · Feb-06-2011, 6:46pm

Originally Posted by mandroid

Just off the top of my head .. have you contacted the producer of this product?
Given the beveling is just a step in the making these items, it can be omitted .

Actually, I did contact Michel Wegen. I'm certain he can and will do it, I'm just wondering if anyone has tried one without a bevel to get some feedback before I order. Michel has not replied yet.

**barrangatan** · Feb-06-2011, 7:41pm

Originally Posted by CES

I have not personally tried a "no bevel" Wegen, but I would think that the tone would be the same as that produced by the bevelled ones, though if you don't like the bevel you may find that your tone improves without it...

This may just be my own experience; but I find that different bevel, or the absence of one, makes quite a difference in the sound that the pick produces. I've never modified a Wegen myself, but have done so on the Pro Plec picks as well as on Dunlop Ultex. The ones I put a bevel on ended up sounding different - a bit more bright, but also thinner than the non-bevel ones. Again YMMV.

**Bob Scrutchfield** · Feb-06-2011, 8:21pm

I haven't tried a no bevel Wegan though it would be interesting to try. My regular pick is the Wegan BN-120 which is a variation of the TF-120 with more rounded corners. It has a bevel but not as much as the thicker Wegans.

**Ivan Kelsall** · Feb-07-2011, 2:02am

From mandobassman - "Michel has not replied yet.". That's exactly the same response that i got from Michel Wegen - no reply. My query was to ask if i could buy some 1.0 mm picks directly from him, as they aren't available in the UK.The store in the US that i knew stocked them didn't send overseas orders. However,Janet Davis Music now stocks them. I get the impression that JDM is on an mission to ship the US stock of carboard over to the UK. The picks which would fit into a matchbox with room to spare, arrived in a box 8" x 4.5 " x 4" - amazing !,
Ivan

**mandobassman** · Feb-07-2011, 7:38pm

Originally Posted by barrangatan

This may just be my own experience; but I find that different bevel, or the absence of one, makes quite a difference in the sound that the pick produces. I've never modified a Wegen myself, but have done so on the Pro Plec picks as well as on Dunlop Ultex. The ones I put a bevel on ended up sounding different - a bit more bright, but also thinner than the non-bevel ones. Again YMMV.

This is exactly what I am trying to find out. I have never tried a beveled AND non-beveled version of the same style of pick. I'm thinking it will sound different too. A beveled pick is thinner where the pick strikes the strings and I would think the different shape of the edge would produce a different tone. I don't want to modify an existing pick, I like the shape of the pick the way it is. I just want to try the same pick without a bevel.

**mandobassman** · Feb-07-2011, 7:46pm

Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall

From mandobassman - "Michel has not replied yet.". That's exactly the same response that i got from Michel Wegen - no reply...
Ivan

I have emailed Michel before and received a nice response. In all fairness, I emailed him on a Friday night. He probably deals with hundreds of emails each day. Besides that, he hand makes picks. I'm sure he is a busy man.

**Kevin K** · Feb-07-2011, 8:34pm

He does get a great number of emails, if you don't get a response in a few days, go ahead and email again. He does respond and willing to work with you on making sure you have the pick you want.

**Dave Weiss** · Feb-07-2011, 9:59pm

I've tried picks of the same model both beveled and not (not Wegens). The beveled picks, like barrangatan says, seem to sound thinner. My analogy would be that a 1.2 non-bevel would sound similar to a 1.4 with a bevel, but with a different tone, if that makes any sense. I prefer non-bevel for that reason, that and I don't hear the over/after tones that I hear with beveled picks. I have tried the same size Wegen picks with and without holes and there was a noticeable tonal difference (I preferred the no hole version). Hope that helps.

**MandoPheel** · Feb-07-2011, 11:42pm

My guess is that the non-beveled pick will sound less bright/thin than the beveled pick. I have tried Bluechip (TP-1R) and Red Bear (TII) picks that have both beveled edges and a single rounded, non-beveled edge on the same pick and, to my ear, the beveled edges have a louder and brighter sound. I would expect the Wegens to behave similarly.

If you're having trouble getting in contact with Michel, I have ordered custom Wegen picks from Greg Boyd's House of Fine Instruments (http://gregboyd.com/). They order in bulk relatively frequently, the customer service is great, and the prices for the custom picks are pretty reasonable (about $8, if I remember correctly - but your results may vary depending on the pick/modification). If you do end up getting a non-beveled Wegen, I'm sure we'd all like to hear what you think about it.

Phil

**Ivan Kelsall** · Feb-08-2011, 2:08am

My e-mails demand a 'notification' of having been read. MW did read my e-mail,but decided not to respond,
Ivan

**adgefan** · Feb-09-2011, 10:06am

Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall

From mandobassman - "Michel has not replied yet.". That's exactly the same response that i got from Michel Wegen - no reply. My query was to ask if i could buy some 1.0 mm picks directly from him, as they aren't available in the UK.T

Ivan

Stuart Williams of the "House of Plank" in Cheshire has been stocking Wegen Picks over the past few years. Contact info at http://bluegrassseeds.co.uk/wegen.html

The site hasn't been updated for a while though, so I don't know for sure if he's still selling them.

**Ivan Kelsall** · Feb-10-2011, 2:15am

I've bought Wegen picks in the UK before,but the 1.00 mm thick ones aren't available over here. The thinnest ones available are the 1.4mm ones which i'd been using,
Ivan

**Fretbear** · Feb-10-2011, 3:41am

A bevel will create a noticeably difference response from different kinds of picks.
I use heavy Red Bears exclusively on mandolin, but take off the entire bevel that they sometimes come with to make a blunt edge. I use the standard Wegen beveled Bluegrass pick on guitar, which I absolutely love the tone and feel of for both lead and rhythm guitar playing. I experimented by taking the bevel off one of those Wegen's to see how it would sound on mandolin, but then didn't like how it sounded on either instrument.
It is worth experimenting with some fine files, automotive sandpaper and nail polishers to find what you like.

**Martin Jonas** · Feb-10-2011, 6:08am

Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall

I've bought Wegen picks in the UK before,but the 1.00 mm thick ones aren't available over here. The thinnest ones available are the 1.4mm ones which i'd been using,
Ivan

Ivan,

I'm in the UK too and have in the past bought the 1.0mm bluegrass guitar picks directly from Michel. I just sent him a $10 bill along with the printed-out order form from his web site (this was before he had a Paypal account) and he sent me a letter with the picks back. No problem and no emails involved...

I've also tried the triangular mandolin picks (M100 and M150), but prefer the bluegrass guitar picks as they have a better shape for me, and a smaller bevel. When I ordered, you got 3 picks for $10, now its 4 picks for $15. I prefer the black ones over the white ones, incidentally, somehow the material feels nicer and less slippery.

Martin

**mandobassman** · Feb-14-2011, 9:01pm

Originally Posted by Martin Jonas

Ivan,

I prefer the black ones over the white ones, incidentally, somehow the material feels nicer and less slippery.

Martin

Yeah, I've wondered about that also. I am the opposite. I like the white ones better. However, the web site says the material is the same, but I tried the mandolin pick in black and it sounded totally different and felt different as well, even though they were the same thickness.

**Ivan Kelsall** · Feb-15-2011, 12:30am

Quote from above - "but I tried the mandolin pick in black and it sounded totally different....". The actual tip shape of the pick can make a huge difference. Very pointy = a bright,thinnish tone / more rounded = a fuller,less bright tone. I always take the extreme point off the new picks,otherwise i find them too bright,
Ivan

**Brent Hutto** · Feb-15-2011, 5:13am

With due respect to Michel Wegen, there's no way the two materials (white and black) are identical. The sound and the feel of the pick striking the strings is noticably different. I don't think one color or the other would always be "better" but for instance in my usual TF120 picks the black is my favorite pick while the white doesn't sound or feel particularly good at all. I have used a white M150 that worked fine, however.

**Ravenwood** · Feb-15-2011, 7:17am

Interesting discussion on the differences in picks based on color. I use both TF140 and TF120, and have both thicknesses in both colors. I find as much variance in feel between two white picks as I find between black and white when controlling for thickness. I've always just attributed the differences to the fact that the picks are hand beveled and so regardless of color aren't truly identical.

**Douglas McMullin** · Feb-15-2011, 9:22am

Originally Posted by Ravenwood

I've always just attributed the differences to the fact that the picks are hand beveled and so regardless of color aren't truly identical.

That is what I have found as well. Any single pick has a pretty large range of tone depending on what corner or edge you are using. I have marked the preferred position on all of my Wegens, and when I am using the most similar corner/edge, I find no difference that I can attribute to the color of the material.

**Brent Hutto** · Feb-15-2011, 9:30am

I've had a favorite, black TF120 for a while now. I'm sorry I gave away the second pick from that package right after I got it.

Just in case I lose the favorite I wanted a spare. So I ordered a couple of white ones. They felt and sounded very different. Didn't care for them at all in fact.

I replaced those white ones with a two-pack of black TF120. The seem pretty similar to the original black one but a bit sharper/brighter sounding. Just a bit though, they make fine substitutes for my favorite. Much more similar to the original than the white ones were.

But I think Doug has a point (pun intended). The two new ones do not feel quite exactly the same on the three corners. I can't hear any difference in sound from corner to corner or between the two picks but something feels not quite consistent. That's probably what I like best about that first TF120, it feels and sounds totally symmetrical. Just use any point and it's all good.

I also have a Blue Chip CT55 (Chris Thile signature) which is the exact same large triangle shape. But the "main" point on it is not even remotely beveled like the two other corners. I asked Matt Goins about it and he said they were all three intended to be the same but through hand beveling consistency from corner to corner can not be absolute. On that one there's no question but to treat it as a "one point" pick, the other two just don't cut it.