Instrument insurance

**CharlieKnuth** · Oct-12-2004, 10:26am

I am looking for some information before on instrument insurance before I go to my home owner insurance company to have a rider put on my policy. I am not sure where to start, so I will just jump in with questions. I don't own any super expensive instrument, but do own a new Sam Bush mandolin, a Rigel A+ Deluxe, a Ratliff mandolin, a Ratliff mandocello, a '65 Martin D18 and a Taylor 610 guitar and a few other miscellaneous instruments. Nothing extremely high end, but enough that if anything happened to them, I couldn't replace them without insurance. Here are my questions, if there is information I haven't asked about that you may think necessary, please let me know.

1) What type of insurance do you have on the instruments you own - theft, damage, etc.

2) Where do you go for the instrument insurance?

3) What is the cost? (I know this varies, but I would like to get a ballpark estimate).

I have recently changed homes and not sure what my homeowners insurance covers. I had an instrument rider on my homeowner insurance, but when I had my instruments stolen a couple of years ago, my Gibson mandocello had increased in value to the point where it was $1000 beyond the maximum coverage. I have replaced the mandocello and I have purchased a nice mandolin, both which exceed the previous maximum. Obviously having had the instruments stolen once, I am a little paranoid and cautious about this.

Any help from the community would be welcomed.

Thanks,

--charlie

**earthsave** · Oct-12-2004, 11:10am

I aint no expert on insurance, but do have homeowners.

If you do not play professionally, it should be covered on your homeowners insurance. Otherwise, someone else can help you with professional instrument insurance coverage.

I'd get an appraisal for all, and then you'd know how much coverage you'd need added to your homeowners, if any. You want at least replacement value.

**jjboone101** · Oct-12-2004, 1:25pm

Yeah, you can get a "rider" on your existing homeowners policy for $20-$40 annually. My insurance guy made me get a written appraisal of the instruments from a local music shop.

**Peakbagr** · Oct-12-2004, 2:09pm

The few Homeowners policies that automatically cover musical instruments, usually have restrictions.
Those restrictions or limitations involve a ceiling on how much they'll pay, whether the instruments are covered in your car or off-premises, and generally don't cover "all risk".

My advice would be to purchase a special HO rider, or a separate policy coving the musical instruments.
Those riders or policies have these advantages:
1. They are truly All-Risk with few exclusions.
2. They are Replacement cost and don't take depreciation into account as many homeowners do.
3. They cover your instruments everywhere.
4. Those riders can also be used to specifically cover fine arts, firearms, silverware and jewelry, all things that MOST homeowners policies generally have limitations and exclusions on.
5. This special riders or policies cover things like dropping, breaking, mysterious disappearance, damage, theft from cars motels and lots of things homeowners coverage does not apply to. One caveat - The pricing of these policies is 2-tiered. There is one rate for "amateurs" and another for musicians who play for remuneration. This is to recognize the higher hazards for dragging your mandolins to gigs and the exposures to loss that is greater than having it in your living room. Answer the question honestly, otherwise your insurance company is within its rights to decline a claim if you pay the amateur rate and they discover you are a "professional". What defines a professional is up to you and your agent to determine.

This is not a plug for insurance. I'd don't sell it, but I've spent most of my working career as an underwriter and marketing rep for insurance companies underwriting things like this, and working with agencies to underwrite and price these riders.

**John Craton** · Oct-12-2004, 2:12pm

Yes, a rider on your homeowner's policy is definitely the way to go. It's far and away the cheapest coverage. Companies vary as to their requirements (as mentioned, some require an official appraisal), but mine only asks for a list of my instruments and their values. Even so, it's a good idea to have detailed photos and appraisals of expensive instruments. Keep those in a safe-deposit box or somewhere they won't be destroyed in case of a fire or such. As long as you're not playing professionally, most homeowners will insure your instruments.

If you do play for profit, then you'll need other coverage. Your best bet is to contact an insurance broker to find the best available. A broker, as opposed to an agent, sells policies from a number of different companies and will look into competitive coverage for you.

Definitely a good idea to keep these puppies covered, regardless whether you play for pay or not.

**Peakbagr** · Oct-12-2004, 2:17pm

To add to the last post. Take close up pictures of all of you instruments from a variety of angles. Some companies ask for appraisals for instruments over a certain value.

Keep the appraisals and photos at a different site than where the instruments are kept so that one loss doesn't destroy the instruments and the documentation. You can even scan the appraisals and attach the photos to an email document that you send to relatives and to yourself, unopened. That way you have a backup in cyberspace.
The advice about brokers is sound as well. If you go to an independent agency, they represent many companies and can comparison shop for you.

**Mandobar** · Oct-12-2004, 2:17pm

if you have a significant amount of instruments ($$$ wise) the best way to insure them is through a company like heritage. if you get a rider on your homeowners and you have a claim the underwriter reserves the right to refuse to renew you next time around. too many claims on your homeowners raises a flag at most insurance companies. the cost is based on the total replacement value of the instruments. at one point i had around $65k worth of stuff. it was around $450 for the year.

**uncle ken** · Oct-12-2004, 2:32pm

I used heritage. My homeowners agent even said it was a better deal than what they could offer. Heritage covers every situation except theft from an unlocked car. It even includes loss of value from damage.

**Peakbagr** · Oct-12-2004, 2:42pm

Every insurance program, including Heritage, has underwriters who look at losses under their policies.
What you gain by having your instruments covered by Heritage is offset by the fact thats ALL Heritage does.
If you have claims with Heritage they can non-renew your policy there. By having your Homeowners, Personal Auto and Instrument riders all with 1 company and with 1 insurance agency, you get the advantage of the leverage having all your business in 1 place brings.
Pls note that I'm not reccomended any insurance company.
As an insurance underwriter, the things we alway look at when there are claims is how long has the customer been with our company, how much of their business do we insure, and who is their agency(large vs small, professional vs less-so, does the agency recommend that we continue coverage?)
Be careful that you don't take the the opinion of a few folks, who may have had good experience with one company and assume it will be the same with you. This is not a knock on Heritage, they are very good, but your own mileage may vary.

ps All of the riders the companies I've worked for did NOT have an exclusion pertaining to "unlocked vehicles".

**CharlieKnuth** · Oct-13-2004, 5:32am

Thanks for the help on this.

**Tom C** · Oct-13-2004, 7:19am

How much do you think your mando should be worth to even consider insurance?
$1,000 3,000, 5,000, 10,000?

**danb** · Oct-13-2004, 7:39am

Ditto to heritage. I've used them for all my stuff

**Peakbagr** · Oct-13-2004, 7:43am

Tom,

It depends on how much you can afford to replace. If that $1,000 mandolin get stolen at a festival or its dropped, can you come up with the money to replace or repair it?
Another factor to consider is the minimum premium required for one of these special policies or riders. In some cases the rate per thousand of insurance is such, that it doesn't pay to spend what might be $50 or $100 to insure a $1,000 mandolin. Thats why I mentioned that there are other things you can get covered on one of those riders (jewelry, fine arts, silverware, cameras, etc) to help make up the minimum premium charge.
You should probably expect a rate of anwhere from 25 cents to $1.50 per $100 dollars of insurance for musicial instuments and 2 to 3x that if you play for remuneration.

**CharlieKnuth** · Oct-13-2004, 11:00am

Tom,

I had an instrument rider on my insurance policy that covered them all up to $2500. I had purchased a Gibson K2 mandocello about 9 years previous to that for $1400 and thought I was covered. I was shocked when I found out that the mandocello was worth $3500. I wasn't fully covered. Yes, it depends on what you can afford to lose. I lost a few instruments in a house breakin that I will never see again and I was happy to have the insurance to cover them. I think it is important to have them covered for replacement value. I never could have purchased them back without the insurance. I would be back playing a cheap Asian important for both guitar and mandolin.

**fatt-dad** · Oct-13-2004, 11:20am

Originally Posted by (Tom C @ Oct. 13 2004, 08:19)

How much do you think your mando should be worth to even consider insurance?
$1,000 #3,000, 5,000, 10,000?

(sorry to be jumping in late in this discussion, but I went through this and can offer some comment).

The premium is based on the value of the instrument. If you are taking the instruments out of the house on a regular basis and want them protected from all sorts of peril, you will need to have a rider. If you mostly used your instrument(s) in the house (i.e., like me on the front porch), you would only need a rider to protect if they are high value or to protect from damage from one of your kids stepping on it (i.e., they should be covered under your normal homeowner's policy for the case of fire or theft).

One other thing, it was referenced above that the rider is like a rider for jewlery or art. This is true, but each type of item covered under the rider has a different premium structure. So for jewlery, you may pay several dollars more per hundred than for an instrument - something like that.

Hope this helps.

f-d

**Lee** · Oct-13-2004, 11:23am

When you take photos be sure to get one of each instrument with you in the photo too.

**Bob DeVellis** · Oct-13-2004, 2:00pm

One added cost that can be more than trivial is the appraisals. If you have a bunch of instruments, or instrument pass through your hands from time to time, appraisals can start to add up. I've seen web sites that offer free or cheap appraisals but I wonder if they'd be willing to do a dozen or so for one person if asked. Local shops seem to want a fair chunk of change. I don't begrudge them their due, but in some cases, with unusual instruments, I think I have a better sense of their market value than most local (or, in some cases, even national) shops would. I have several rather odd-ball instruments that might bring fairly inaccurate appraisals because a local dealer would have little or no past experience with them. Those are probably the instruments that also would be hardest to replace because of their unusualness, and thus may most need to be insured. Is documenting ownership and condition sufficient in most cases? I know Heritage wanted formal appraisals, which pretty much killed the deal, as far as I was concerned. It seemed as though I'd need to lose an instrument every few years for it to pay off. Seems like loving care, smoke detectors, and a good home alarm system may afford more cost-effective protection in some cases.

**ronlane3** · Oct-13-2004, 2:19pm

Originally Posted by (Tom C @ Oct. 13 2004, 08:19)

How much do you think your mando should be worth to even consider insurance?
$1,000 #3,000, 5,000, 10,000?

Wouldn't that be answered by what you could afford to replace without insurance? Some people could afford to replace a Master Model without insurance, while some couldn't even replace a MK or Morgan Monroe.

Very sujective.

**Lynn Dudenbostel** · Oct-13-2004, 6:42pm

I'll put in a plug for Heritage too. Ellis Hershman is top notch. His e-mail address is ellish@musicins.com. I've had shop insurance with them for several years and the only claim I've made was paid in full in 6 days. Nice thing about dealing with Ellis is, if you insure a $110,000 Loar, he wouldn't bat an eye. He knows values. See what your homeowners agent does with that! Plus, his son, Matthew, just finished school at Red Wing and has already built a mandolin and a guitar. He's joining Ellis in the business.

Just a happy customer.... no financial interest at all....
Lynn