smoothing plane recommendation

[PeteinGA]

I am looking for recommendations for a good plane for thicknessing flat top soundboards and sides.

I assume a smoothing plane would be best suited to this task, but that is just an intuitive guess. The make and model # of a good Plane would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Pete

[sunburst]

I'd say you could use most any size old Stanley/Baily plane between say... 1 and 5. They can be had from flea markets and junk shops from time to time at good prices, and if set up properly, the older ones in particular are great tools. For more information than you'll ever need about Stanley planes, click this link.

[j. condino]

I'll be the first person to back up John's advice; I've got a great selection of my favorites spanning the last 100 years. That said, I can also say that since it arrived four months ago, I've used my new Veritas NX60 every single day and have reached for it probably 5:1 over all the others in the pack every chance I get, but it comes at a serious price....

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...&cat=1&p=61963

For years I got by with just a simple Stanley 101 and a single round bottom Ibex. You could also do well with just a Lie Nielson 103 as your all around flat bottom. The NX60 falls right in between a 103 and a Bailey #3 for sole and blade size. There should be a review of it in the upcoming issue of American Lutherie.

All of the nice tools are enjoyable to have around, but it is really more an operator issue than a tool issue. Some guys get all worked up about the latest nerdy tool (I'm one of them); for others, it is the neighbor lady..... Regardless of what I suggest, your hands and methods of work will be different than mine and necessitate different solutions. In general, I try to reccommend tools made back in the day when people used them, both manual and motorized old iron, and then take the time to learn how to setup and sharpen them.

j.
www.condino.com

[Dave Cohen]

If I am remembering correctly, true "smooth" planes have a curved iron. Not impossible, but kinda hard to get a good thin flat plate when the iron wants to make scallops. Later, the Stanley planes redefined that with a family of planes with flat irons. The original smooth plane was for making diagonal roughing cuts to establish a plane surface on a board with no warp or "wind". You might consider looking in the Cumpiano & Natelson book for their section on planing guitar plates. They used a plane with a toothed iron first, then planed smooth using a plane with a flat iron. The toothed iron gave less tearout and provided a reference for how much material was being removed.

http://www.Cohenmando.com

[sunburst]

Dave, the way I understand it, carpenters/cabinet makers would use a set of planes; the ones for rougher work like removing thickness from boards and starting with rough sawn lumber, would have the irons ground with quite a bit of curve and the frog set back for a large mouth opening. Further smoothing was done with a flatter iron and a frog set more forward. The bottoms of the scalloped cuts from the earlier plane served a similar function as the tooth plane, a depth gauge of sorts.
I've seen the scalloped plane cuts in old country furniture and cabinetry, and it is one of the features "replicas" often miss.
The only plane iron I grind absolutely straight across at 90 degrees is my #7 jointer plane. All others have some amount of crown at the bevel. We can use whatever type of iron we want or need for the job at hand.

[tree]

I think the first plane John describes is commonly called a "scrub" plane.

I treat the iron on my #7 jointer just like John - except that I round the corners slightly.

Regarding Lee Valley tools, I own a low angle jack plane, and they have definitely done their R & D on ways to improvement performance. There are set screws on each side of the iron, the iron itself is very beefy to resist chatter, you have a choice of the type (hardness) of steel you prefer, and the adjustment mechanism is based on the classic Norris infill planes, only better. The sole on many of the Lee Valley planes is a bit longer in front of the mouth than the comparable Stanley planes, and the mouth itself is easily adjustable (loosen the front knob) without having to reset the frog.

These are very well made, very functional hand planes. It would be worth looking at their entire plane selection and considering what works best for your needs, and then considering if you can afford it (some planes are more expensive than others).

[j. condino]

Many of the nicer planes and hand tools are pretty expensive. I was lucky enough to find a collector- a nerdy old guy who had approx 1000 planes, representing most of the major models and manufacturers over the last 100 years. He also kept them all tuned up and liked to use them, allowing me to go through almost every one and see which worked well for my needs, but also fit my hands properly and worked for my methods. This allowed me to sort through all of the hype and find exactly the working tools I needed without a lot of time spent or a lot of money wasted on something like a Bailey #2 that is too small for my mitts. Going to one of the tool collector shows is also a great place to do the same sort of research.

j.
www.condino.com

[Dave Cohen]

My use of the term "smooth plane" is based on my recollection of Tage Frid's book on joinery. I say 'recollection', because someone borrowed the book and didn't return it. Maybe Frid was transliterating from the Danish.

In any case, I also ease the corners of the irons on my larger planes. Still think that Pete could benefit from looking into Cumpiano's description and toothed irons.

Higher-end planes such as those from Lee Valley, Lie-Nielsen, and others are a good value for the very serious woodworker. I have a Lie-Nielsen block plane that I probably reach for more than any other single hand tool. However, some machines compete with them in the value department. Some of the small drum sanders, e.g., the Jet 10-20, cost only little (if any) more than some of the finest handplanes. That, and you can easily do other things such as making your own wood binding with them. The handplanes win hands down, though, in the joy-to-work-with department. I don't find much joy in using my drum sander.

http://www.Cohenmando.com

[tree]

The handplanes win hands down, though, in the joy-to-work-with department. I don't find much joy in using my drum sander.

http://www.Cohenmando.com

Nail struck squarely on the head and driven in a single, perfect stroke.

[Charles E.]

A smoothing plane is usually a # 4 or #4-1/2, larger then a block plane, smaller then a jack plane. I have a Veritas #4 smooth plane and it is one of my favorites. It is also less expensive then the Lie-Neilsons. Older planes are great too but I find it takes alot of time to get them and running.

[Bill Snyder]

I am looking for recommendations for a good plane for thicknessing flat top soundboards and sides.

I suspect any older Stanley/Bailey such as John mentioned would work well if sharp and tuned up well. I like to use my #3 or #5 1/2 for this type of work. For some reason I don't think I have ever tried my #4 for this. My #3 dates from 1944 and my #5 1/2 from the 1930's.
Miller Fall's planes should work well also if tuned up properly. Their #'s are also their length, ie a #9 Miller Falls is 9 inches long, the same size as a Stanley #4.

[Avi Ziv]

Somewhat related question, if I may -

How do you hold the plate down for thicknessing with a hand plane? I mean - these boards are already only a few mm thick. Do you just plane against a very low stop, clamp them down somehow and work in sections? or perhaps some other method?

Thanks

[sebastiaan56]

I use a wide caul and clamp one edge to the bench, plane, turn it around and do it again. I find a scraper plane (Stanley #80) is great for the hard woods but a really sharp #5 is best for softer timbers. Im getting some bench dogs which should make the operation easier.

[sprucetop1]

For years I've used a 1920's Stanley no. 7 for jointing and smoothing flat surfaces and got good results provided that the plane iron was as sharp as I could get it amd the mouth was adjusted very fine. Sometimes though...on difficult woods, whatever I did, the results were sub-optimal with chatter and tear-out. The solution was to have the plane sole ground absolutely flat by an engineering company specialising in lathe bed regrinding. This has really enhanced the plane's performance.

[carleshicks]

I have a veritas Low angle smooth plane that works great. They are for sale through Lee Valley.

[resophil]

If I am remembering correctly, true "smooth" planes have a curved iron. Not impossible, but kinda hard to get a good thin flat plate when the iron wants to make scallops.
http://www.Cohenmando.com

You are not remembering correctly. Tage Frid did not make such a comparison in any of his books.

The "Schrupphobel" (scrub plane) has been a part of every cabinetmaker's tool chest in Europe for centuries, long before Bailey/Stanley planes ever reared their heads. Scrub planes (usually wood-bodied)do indeed have plane irons, (usually single, no cap iron) that have rounded ends. This facilitates maximum stock removal, and is usually the first plane that a cabinetmaker reaches for when he attacks a rough piece of lumber. (of some thickness... I can't imagine using a scrub plane on anything as thin as a guitar plate...)

Smooth planes, wooden or metal, are the types of planes for this job. The long ones are called jointers (same as the machines that do similar jobs of straightening edges or surfaces)

Toothed planes are a different animal altogether. The blades are set into the body at an almost vertical angle, and they ARE used for reference as to where hollows are found in the surface to be planed. They are typically the last plane to be used on a surface being veneered. A furniture surface that is going to be french-polished to a very high gloss needs to be PERFECTLY flat, so as to reflect light very evenly. A "zahnhobel" makes sure of this. It will show where the high spots are, and they can be removed with a smooth plane. When the toothing plane scores evenly everywhere on the surface, it is usually used lengthwise, crosswise, and on both diagonals to provide a finely-hatched surface for the adhesive. (This used to be done a lot in the days of HHG veneering, but modern adhesives have pretty much made this obsolete)

[dunbarhamlin]

A toothed iron in a common pitch plane (as pointed out, not the same as a toothing plane for veneer work) is indeed good for reducing tearout problems.
LN offer toothed irons, suitable for both bevel up and bevel down planes.
Here's an excellent thread on their use: http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/t...es-t25170.html

[Walter Lay]

I used a Stanley #5 for just about everything for years. and you can certainly get by that way. Then I found an old #7 jointer. And then i spent the bucks (a little over $300) for a Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 smoother. No regrets. Not necessary, but a true joy to work with. Yeah, you could spend a little more and get a drum sander. But it's slower, noisier, messier and not at all fun to use.
Walter Lay
PS the 4 1/2 is just a little heavier than a 4.