Duff Mandolins... a question...

[Glassweb]

was wondering why there are always so many nice-looking, secondary market Duff mandolins for sale. i've never played one myself, but they seem to be a very high-quality build. is there something about their sound that is not making it for all you initial-purchase Duff owners out there? just curious...

[Charlieshafer]

I was wondering that, too. I was about to grab one, but then, there seemed to be an awful lot available, and now new ones are all over as well...

[John Soper]

I'm very taken with the one I liberated from a Cafe ad last spring. X-braced, and has a great tone. It may be catch and release season. I may have to release a Collings...

[Glassweb]

Thanks for your response! Anyone else?

[Ben Milne]

RU thinkin of picking up a pac rim beater from the classifieds Glassw?

I don't have the budget( or skills to justify) owning a Duff but It has been interesting to see them popping up on the classif's lately.

That being said, all the Duff's I've heard have sounded brilliant! I just wish i could comment on how they played.

[whyner]

I was wondering the same about Collins...

Steve the bonehead noob
Oregon

[schloss]

Are you planning on buying a Duff, Glassweb?

[Glassweb]

No, I'm good.

[schloss]

So was this a flame against Duff then? hmmm

[Ben Milne]

I should say that technically, (being from Western Australia), Duffs may fall out of pacific region and more into a kind of atlantic-rim ... Either way

[Glassweb]

So was this a flame against Duff then? hmmm

Wrong Schloss... Just curious about the mysteries of the secondary mandolin market. If anything I'd love to play one of these fine-looking instruments.

[grassrootphilosopher]

Glassweb
Re: Duff Mandolins... a question...

Originally Posted by schloss
So was this a flame against Duff then? hmmm
Wrong Schloss... Just curious about the mysteries of the secondary mandolin market. If anything I'd love to play one of these fine-looking instruments.

You are right to be curious about the secondary mandolin market. I am too. But I doubt that you will find any obvious answers.

I have taken notice of about 4 classified ads. All classifieds are from fellow cafe fellas. One private individual from FL, one private individual from GA and a respectable dealer.

If you have followed the cafe posts you will have noticed that of the 4 prospective sellers one has (still?) a Gilchrist, another has other Duff instruments (that he still has if I´m not mistaken) and the seller has taken up to sell/trade Duff instrument about 2 years back and had them used for sale or trade from time to time.

If you check Gruhn´s website you will find that he - apart from Tony Williamson and Elderly - has become the US´ third Duff representative. Currently he has a used Duff (2004 ?) a new Duff F-5 and a new Duff A-5. The A-5 is about 5 k.

Are they fine instruments? Speaking for mine, definetly! They are very well built and the fit and finish has no shortcomings. If you like it loud, responsive and with a lot of carrying power, my mando has it. I have to control my playing to not overpower others in a band setting (with equally good instruments). Apart from being very powerful my mandolins tone is rich with nice overtones that give the sound a shimmering quality. There is a wide tonal variety when played at the bridge as opposed to the instrument being played at the neck joint. It can sound strident as well as crooning depending on where you attack the strings and how you pick it.

I have people frequently comment on how good the instrument sounds. A guy who owns a 1923 F-5 and who was so generous as to let me play his instrument while he played mine gave me insight in the sound difference. The Duff does not sound Loar-like. With the Loar the notes sound "stringy" yet full while the Duff notes explode like a bubble. In several comparisons with Gilchrists I was impressed to see different tonal approaches yet interesting similarities. I found my Duff to be sonically on par with 90ies Gils. Interesting enough I found Gils after 2000 to be more physically balanced, rather more midrangey, a little darker sounding and very, very powerfull. These latter Gils are superior while I would be hard pressed to declare if the earlier ones are.

The mentioned Loar owner once told me that not all Duffs sound as good as mine. Well, I have played a 2004 Duff which was very nice though I have not played it back to back with mine because I didn´t have mine back then. I have listened to an early Duff (late 80ies) that sounded very good while the built (finish, pearl cutting etc.) could have been better when looked at from todays perspective.

There you have it.

Let me close out with a thought about Gilchrist F-5 mandos. I´ve seen a 70ies Gil for sale (maybe at the Pickin´ Parlor website?) for about 17 k, Gruhn has an 80ies Gil for about 20 k, a new Gil is 22.5 k and a Gil F-5jr. is 17 k. I think that looks funny! To each his own but if I could put out this kind of money I would buy for 22.5 and have a Gil to match my sonic and visual preferences not being able to buy anything prior to 1930. If I were looking at Gils pre millenium I might even look at other current makers also. (and what about those Altmans, Stanleys etc. etc.?).

[grassrootphilosopher]

As an afterthought: One of the classifieds´ posters had his instrument for sale about 3 times in the last 3 years, the other about 2 times within a year. The dealer has two Duffs now but didn´t have one for about a year. Why do people want to sell? Maybe you´re satisfied with your Gilchrist as your allround instrument and you consider a Duff F-5 not your campfire beater and want to see that it get´s a good home. Maybe you have to downsize your stable because the wife needs a car or something. Maybe you see that the classifieds have a couple of Duffs and you want to throw in yours for good measure in order to have buyers maybe chose yours. There were two Dudenbostels (A-models) on the classifieds some while back with a thread going about them (though they were just two instruments).

Duff mandolins are professional grade mandolins.

[sgarrity]

I've played a handful of them and they are mighty fine mandolins. When I stopped at Gruhn's back in Jan. of this year I A/B'd the new Duff F5 with the new Miller F5 they had at the time. They were both $8500 and both excellent, traditional sounding red spruce topped mandolins.

As for trying to figure out the used mandolin market..........I'd have better luck trying to understand quantum physics!

[mandotool]

Some of you will recall a few years ago..July of 06..... that there were 5 Gilchrist F-5's in the cafe classifieds ....
NFI .....but if one were considering a Duff, the stars would seem to be in align....

[Glassweb]

As an afterthought: One of the classifieds´ posters had his instrument for sale about 3 times in the last 3 years, the other about 2 times within a year. The dealer has two Duffs now but didn´t have one for about a year. Why do people want to sell? Maybe you´re satisfied with your Gilchrist as your allround instrument and you consider a Duff F-5 not your campfire beater and want to see that it get´s a good home. Maybe you have to downsize your stable because the wife needs a car or something. Maybe you see that the classifieds have a couple of Duffs and you want to throw in yours for good measure in order to have buyers maybe chose yours. There were two Dudenbostels (A-models) on the classifieds some while back with a thread going about them (though they were just two instruments).

Duff mandolins are professional grade mandolins.

Olaf... thanks for your thoughtful impressions and feedback regarding Paul Duff's mandolins. You too Shaun. I guess maybe I WAS considering buying one of these previously owned Duffs when I saw how low some of the asking prices were... it seemed too little for such nice looking, hand made instruments. That's why I posed the question in this thread... it was really just out of curiosity...

[Carleton Page]

I have been wanting a Duff ever since I heard Skip Gorman play his. I also met another guy at this past Joe Val festival that was playing one and it sounded wonderful. Didn't have the nerve to ask to play it though, so I don't know anything about how they feel /play.

[Perry]

I think the answer to the OP might be as simple as folks are busted these days. For some Duff owners it may be their second (or even third) high end mandolin. Everybody's got a monthly nut they gotta deal with.

Oops I see Olaf was thinking along the same lines

[lenf12]

Hi all,

I am the owner of one of the Duff F-5 mandolins for sale in the Cafe classifieds. It is a truely wonderful mandolin in every respect; tone, playability, materials, fit and finish. My avatar shows the back of this beautiful mandolin.

Quite frankly, I was a little disturbed to see so many Duffs for sale and am resisting lowering my asking price to compete with all of the others. Depending on condition, I believe that some of the for sale Duff's are very underpriced. A new one is $8500 so a mint condition used one should fetch $6000 even in today's economy. We're trying to sell it because we simply could put the money to better use. This is one of a few mandolins in our household and it is very rarely played at all. I must also admit that I own a Duff H-5 mandola and it is not for sale (yet).

Paul Duff builds top notch, professional level instruments that are also works of art. If it doesn't sell, I certainly won't be disappointed but my wife will be. This one is a lifetime keeper. To me, they all are keepers. To my wife, almost everything is for sale ;-).

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[reverhar]

I owned one of the Duff mandolins that is for sale right now. I bought it new and had it for a few months until I decided to trade it for a DMM. It just so happened that the DMM became available and I had to trade because I was mandolin rich and cash poor. The mandolin was and I am sure still is a great mandolin. I enjoyed playing it for the short time that I owned it.

[grassrootphilosopher]

Hi all,

Quite frankly, I was a little disturbed to see so many Duffs for sale and am resisting lowering my asking price to compete with all of the others. Depending on condition, I believe that some of the for sale Duff's are very underpriced. A new one is $8500 so a mint condition used one should fetch $6000 even in today's economy. ...

Paul Duff builds top notch, professional level instruments that are also works of art. If it doesn't sell, I certainly won't be disappointed but my wife will be. This one is a lifetime keeper. To me, they all are keepers. To my wife, almost everything is for sale ;-).

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

I hear you!

When I got my instrument the initial comment from my wife - who knows good stuff when she sees it but who is no musician - was that the mandolin is a work of art. Other non musician friends that are craftsmen commented very favorably about the fit and finish. This was the day when I got the mandolin. When I started playing it, asking if it sounded good to the listener my wife´s comment was: "It´s loud". Grudgingly she also admitted that it sounded very nice.

[grassrootphilosopher]

I owned one of the Duff mandolins that is for sale right now. I bought it new and had it for a few months until I decided to trade it for a DMM. It just so happened that the DMM became available and I had to trade because I was mandolin rich and cash poor. The mandolin was and I am sure still is a great mandolin. I enjoyed playing it for the short time that I owned it.

When I had the chance to play mine back to back to a DMM I found the differences in the sound noticable. The Duff sounded more elegant to my ear while the DMM had more raw power. The DMM had a much more pronounced top arch. I was very astonished about that. The same guy has a Dave Harvey signed custom varnished Fern (2008?) that sounded rather similar to the Duff (I played them back to back at a festival).

There are so many great instruments out there. I may try out a Heiden some day (knowing that there is one in Germany) and would surely like to try out a Kimble, Hester, Wiens, Altman, Stanley etc.

When I played a Loar and the Loar owner played my mandolin I was sorely dissapointed about the sound of my mandolin. While I found that the Loar sang in my head to the lightest touch my mandolin (in the pro musician Loar owner´s hand) sounded like rubber bands on a log (that was my first impression). When the Loar tasting was over I walked out of the venu and opened my mando case in the parking lot. It was night and everything was pretty quiet. I played a chord and heard it hang in the air and echo back from the trees. When I came to the campsite and another pro musician tried out my mandolin he could hardly give it back to me raving about the sound and playability. So it´s all a matter of perspective and what you can afford. I never got my hearing back to normal though I know that I have a pretty good mandolin. (I played a pretty good 20ies Fern but the Loar experience was special)

[reverhar]

When I played a Loar and the Loar owner played my mandolin I was sorely dissapointed about the sound of my mandolin. While I found that the Loar sang in my head to the lightest touch my mandolin (in the pro musician Loar owner´s hand) sounded like rubber bands on a log (that was my first impression). When the Loar tasting was over I walked out of the venu and opened my mando case in the parking lot. It was night and everything was pretty quiet. I played a chord and heard it hang in the air and echo back from the trees. When I came to the campsite and another pro musician tried out my mandolin he could hardly give it back to me raving about the sound and playability. So it´s all a matter of perspective and what you can afford. I never got my hearing back to normal though I know that I have a pretty good mandolin.

The Duff, DMM, Loar, etc. are all different animals and personally I expect them all to be different. I have played some Loars that I didn't think sound all that good while others are fantastic. I since traded the DMM for which I traded the Duff for another DMM that IMO is a much better instrument than my original DMM. Not so much the tone is different, but the playability. I have never had an instrument that played itself but this one is about as close as I can get. I have never had the opportunity to A/B it against a Loar but it would be interesting to do that.

Right now, I have had a great opportunity to try out a 2005 Gilchrist for a few months. My wife also, who is not a music expert, quickly noticed the tone of the Gil and commented that she liked it and how different it was from my other mandolins. More bell like and not as dark. The Gil is a great sounding instrument but I still like the playability and the growl of the DMM. I think it is just a matter of taste and style.

[JeffD]

I haven't noticed more Duff's for sale than other makers. But there is a lot I don't notice. If there is an up tick, perhaps its regional, or the sales venue, or what ever. I do not think Duff owners are any more likely to want to sell than anyone else.

When you cut a blueberry muffin in half you often see a few clumps of blueberries in the otherwise randomly distributed arrangement. In fact you alway see some clumps. The clumps need not mean anything.

[reverhar]

The short of it is there are some good Duff mandolins out there for sale at a very good price point. IMO one could not go wrong by buying one of these instruments.