Help Me Guys, Please!

**mandoJeremy** · Feb-11-2004, 11:52pm

Well, after several emails without a response I must ask you guys to help me here. #I sent my Bush off for a varnish finish and I love the results, except for the fact that the open D and A strings buzz terribly when hit open or fretted. #The truss rod and neck is set perfectly and this mando didn't do this before I sent it to Gibson; I also emailed Danny Roberts twice about it and have still gotten no response so I will ask you experienced luthiers about what I should do besides sending it back to Gibson (which I will not do). #Also, if you tune every other string down and get the harmonics correct on the G and E strings, the D is almost right and the A is flat as H&*# (the rest of the strings note perfectly). #I think the saddle is cut wrong and I am going to re-cut a new one tomorrow (actually today) and see if this helps. #Mind you that this is a replacement that Charlie sent me a couple of years ago. #Again, the base is not even close to being fitted correctly to the top and again, I guess I will do this myself. #Someone please give me advice on how to get rid of the buzz! #It does pi&& me off because I want sound (which it does have except for the buzzes) and not a pretty mando (which it also very much has). #Thanks for any help.

**Chris Baird** · Feb-12-2004, 12:07am

If your neck is straight and the relief is correct then you either have the slots too low in the nut or some frets are high. #And yes if three strings are perfectly intonated and one is off and is flat then you either need a new saddle or you need to take back the three good strings to match the bad one and reposition the bridge. #Don't do any filing on the saddle unless you are playing on broken in strings.
Check your fret ends to see if any are sticking up. If that is the problem then you just have to push it back down and give it a shot of CA glue. Its hard to give much advice not knowing exactly where the buzz is coming from.

**mandoJeremy** · Feb-12-2004, 12:20am

The nut is the factory one from Gibson (it didn't do this with the same exact nut before I sent it back to Gibson) and there are not any high frets. It's not that kind of buzz, I don't really know how to explain it but it sort of sounds like the strings are hitting each other, but with Bush spacing that is not possible and I have watched the strings when I hit them and that is not it. I will try the new saddle and see what that accomplishes! Thanks Chris.

**mandoJeremy** · Feb-12-2004, 12:21am

It's kind of a muted buzz. Does that make sense?

**Michael Lewis** · Feb-12-2004, 12:36am

You need to get some measurements so you KNOW where you are regarding the set up. Two things come to mind here, one, the saddle may be flipped around backwards, and two, it may be too low. If these are not the case you need to measure the relief and we can go from there.

You must realize that even Gibsons respond to humidity changes, and if this mandolin has been in a dry environment (winter) the top will have a tendency to sink a bit. This would require the bridge to be adjusted up a bit.

**AeroJoe** · Feb-12-2004, 12:48am

Jeremy...either you, or have someone that knows what they are doing, fit that bridge to that top, as absolutely perfectly as it can...this is essential, the others that will likely respond to your pleas will agree with me...there should be no space between that bridge and the top...an aemeba off the hair of a flea's leg should not be able to get under that bridge...
It can be a very time-consuming thing to tackle, especially if the ebony base is really good quality, dense ebony...but it will be worth it in the end result.
In my opinion, the bridge base and the top of the mandolin should be ONE. I am no luthier or repairperson...my claim to fame are my shell picks..but anyway, I hope someone that IS a luthier/repairperson will help you fit that thing, it is very easy to mess it up,...it is a nerve wracking thing when your axe is out of commission for any reason...
I hope your mandolin will be ok soon!!!

**mandoJeremy** · Feb-12-2004, 7:25am

Thanks for the responses guys. The saddle is not flipped around backwards and I actually play my strings pretty dang high so that can't be it either. I know this is pretty much hard to answer without hearing the mando. I am going to refit the bridge today and slot a new saddle for it and see what that does for me. Like I said, I have only had this mando back for a month and it was this way when it arrived so it hasn't dried out at my place!

**Scotti Adams** · Feb-12-2004, 8:22am

Jeremey...I had this problem last week...take a look at the strings as they pass over the peghead...between the nut and the tuner shafts. I actually had a buzz that was caused by the e strings hitting each other...or laying on each other....I restrung them making sure that they didnt touch and that took care of the buzz...also if you have screws holding the tuner buttons on..check them..if they loosen up this can cause a buzz also...this has happened to me too. This stuff may sound obvious but its easily over looked...

**Tom C** · Feb-12-2004, 8:47am

Maybe the newer varnish is thinner and the bridge sits slightly lower.

Feb-12-2004, 9:13am

Jeremy check the the bridge saddle where they strings lay on it. I had a muted buzz problem and it was the slot cut in the top saddle. I ended up taking some very fine sand paper and sanding the outer edges of the top saddle. Mine sounded like the same thing whether played open or fretted it was a very muted type of buzz. Also I had a mandolin one time that had a loose nut on the truss rod but it was a very tinny buzz but only when a D note was played.

**bt345** · Feb-12-2004, 9:59am

I think Peter Coombe had a similar problem once...it was the strings.

Good Luck

**ellisppi** · Feb-12-2004, 10:09am

If it was me, I'd be suspicious of the bridge fit to the top. The bridge feet could be vibrating against the top and causing what seems like string buzz. Its likely neck relief or fret related but fit the bridge base first.

**mandoJeremy** · Feb-12-2004, 2:17pm

Okay, I got the buzz out of the D string and the A still has a little but I guess I will just have to live with it. I slotted two new saddles and they both did the same thing and I refitted the bridge and still the same thing. I started listening to where the buzz was coming from and I narrowed it down to one little thing that my mando didn't have until it came back from Gibson. A piece of foam on the tailpiece under the strings. My old tailpiece had leather there from the factory and I noticed that the foam had the strings raised up pretty high and the D string that buzzed the worst out of the two was actually raised higher by the piece of foam. So, I removed the foam, put the old saddle back on, and put my usual piece of felt slid on the top under the strings behing the bridge and Voila! I am happy once again. Thanks for your help and advice guys. Now it's time to pick.:D

**Big Joe** · Feb-12-2004, 2:56pm

We played the mandolin here in the shop and it played perfectly here. Of course, once it ships it is going to respond the new environment. It will be radically different in various areas. The noise you described sounded much like the buzz at the tailpiece and that was what I was going to suggest checking first. It appears you have found the solution. Of course you could have shipped it back to us and we would have been happy to fix it for you. The only problem with that is it could be out of setup by the time it gets back to you and your environment. You do know you can always bring it in and we will take care of it for you. We hope you love your new instrument.

**mandoJeremy** · Feb-12-2004, 3:02pm

Thanks Big Joe, I do very much LOVE my old Sammy. I didn't want to send it back to you guys for something so little unless it was going to be a last resort. Thanks again to you guys and I am saving my money up for a Wayne Benson model. Maybe one day!

**Darryl Wolfe** · Feb-12-2004, 3:43pm

So where are the pictures of this varnish Bush???

**mandoJeremy** · Feb-12-2004, 3:45pm

Hey Darryl, I posted pics when I first got it back under the General Mandolin Discussions. #They do look very red colored but I am going to post some updated ones as soon as this front passes and it will be safe to take the mando outside in the true light. #My house is kind of dark inside anyways. Also, being that you live in Aiken you just need to drive up to Rutherfordton, visit the store I work at, bring your Loar, and play this Bush. We are not far from you.

**Nolan** · Feb-13-2004, 12:23pm

Wow, you got the upgrade to varnish. That's pretty expensive, at least it was last year when I was thinking of doing the same. I never did get a price but Charlie just said, "I hope you realize how much that will cost".

I figured it was thousands from the tone in his voice.

**Nolan** · Feb-13-2004, 12:38pm

Can I add, not that their (Gibson's or should I say Charlie's secret recipe!) varnish finish isn't worth it.. from what I understand it is extremely time and labor intensive.
It was just too much $$ for me!