Exotic woods

**Justin E.** · Mar-01-2010, 10:48am

I'm considering building a mandolin and am looking for some wood. I'm thinking something along the lines of Jesse McReynolds' brazilian rosewood mandolin. I'm not holding out hope of finding the brazilian but am looking for something similar in appearance and tonal properties but more readily available. I'm just wondering if anybody can help me out with what to get and where to get it. I've got a cocobolo board that I was saving to make some guitars out of that I can get a 1 piece back out of. I'm just curious about your opinions on this. Thank you!

**sunburst** · Mar-01-2010, 10:58am

Cocobolo would be similar to BRW in many ways, it could possibly cause skin and other reactions in the builder. (I've had reactions to massive doses of brazilian rosewood dust from resawing and thickness sanding so I steer clear of cocobolo.) Honduran rosewood would also be similar, as well as some others. East Indian rosewood might be more easily available than many others, but might be less similar.

**Lefty Luthier** · Mar-01-2010, 11:35am

I have used cocobolo for fretboards but would not advise its' use for a backboard or rim for two reasons, toxic sander dust for certain and too high a resonant frequency when contoured to anything close to correct mandolin dimensions. My one attempt at using rosewood (it was supposed to be Brazilian) for a backboard was way too stiff for good acoustics even when thinned to dangerous thickness.

**Paul Hostetter** · Mar-01-2010, 6:55pm

I know quite a few people who build guitars from cocobolo, and a good number who have significant allergic reactions to more common tonewoods. If you’re half serious about this, you get a good mask or tke whatever measures are necessary to protect yourself. The guitars and mandolins I have seen have been outstanding, at least to the extent that the makers knew what they were doing. This list includes some stellar luthiers, a number of whom are on the Café. Cocobolo is very similar to BRW, and that stuff makes great mandolins as well as guitars.

I cannot imagine a piece of rosewood of any kind that would be too stiff for a "backboard"—you do mean for the back, yes?

**Chris Baird** · Mar-01-2010, 9:25pm

Cocobolo works well for mandolins, I've used it a lot. Can't compare it with Brazilian though, as I haven't used Brazilian. But, both are true S. American rosewoods. And, yes, better to be safe then sorry, I've never had an allergic reaction, but, there are plenty of reports.

**Pete Brown** · Mar-01-2010, 9:43pm

Originally Posted by Chris Baird

I've never had an allergic reaction, but, there are plenty of reports.

I worked with western red cedar for some time with no sign of allergies, however, it seems my body was slowly filling with sawdust from the toes up, because I quite suddenly began to react to it to the extent that I can no longer tolerate it.

I assume the sensitization process works the same way with the rosewoods and that those like Chris who don't currently experience an allergic reaction are inevitably going to reach saturation point one day.

**Chris Baird** · Mar-01-2010, 10:36pm

I wouldn't say "inevitably". But, yes, sensitization is always a threat. All the more reason to be careful; even if you have no reaction. Ebony is a good example, a few will be allergic from the get go, a few more will develop allergies over time, but, most will probably be alright regardless. But, which one are you?

**Geoff B** · Mar-02-2010, 12:33am

Originally Posted by Lefty Luthier

too high a resonant frequency when contoured to anything close to correct mandolin dimensions... "My one attempt at using rosewood (it was supposed to be Brazilian) for a backboard was way too stiff for good acoustics even when thinned to dangerous thickness."

Perhaps off topic, but the resoluteness of this statement has me wanting to know more about what you mean by "correct mandolin dimensions" and "good acoustics".

**StevenS** · Mar-02-2010, 8:40am

I had a Taiwan/VietNam uber-inlaid online auction special that was made with Bubinga sides and back. Beautiful but really heavy. Made me curious about what could be done if carved and curved fairly thin.

Steve

**Chris Baird** · Mar-02-2010, 10:05am

I've used Bubinga a lot too. It is also a good wood, rosewood like in tone, but, more mellow. Smells like a cross between strawberries and watermelons when you are working it.

**Justin E.** · Mar-02-2010, 10:30am

Wow! Thank you! I've worked with cocobolo once before, on an Australian Blackwood OM guitar I was building. I've also esperimented with it on banjo bridges. While I didn't have an allergic reaction to it or the Paduak I used on my last mandolin, I figure I need to invest in a good mask, especially for the lacquer.

Are there any special precautions I have to take as far as gluing and finishing cocobolo?

**Big Joe** · Mar-02-2010, 11:42am

I've used quite a bit of cocobola and rosewood and ebony and numerous other woods with no problems. I often use a mask when sanding and try to cover the front of me so I don't get too much on my skin, but that is not always possible. Especially when turning wood on the lathe. While it has never been an issue to me, my dog (Be-Bop) likes to be near me when I use the lathe. He would lay under my feet and get covered with the shavings. He would begin to loose hair (he is a long haired mini dacshund) and would wheeze for a couple days after. I finally had to lock him out of the room where I would use the lathe.

Wearing a mask and gloves is never a bad idea. Dust is dust and wood dust is pretty heavy and can be very bad for the lungs even if you do not have an allergic reaction to the woods itself. Personally I dislike Mahogany dust about as much as any. It seems to me nastier for breathing if I do not have a mask on or if it leaks around my nose. It doesn't cause a reaction, just tastes bad and seems like it gets everywhere you don't want it. I'm sure it is not good for the lungs either.

If you are going to use an oily wood like rosewood or cocobola just be sure to clean it well just before applying finish. I usually wash it with a bit of naptha quickly. I have never had a problem with the finish. I think cocobola would be a great wood for a mandolin back and sides.

Hans Brentrup built one of the most beautiful and unusual mandolins I've ever played. He made it from Pink Ivory. That would be a tough one to make, and it is heavy, but it sounds amazingly good and looks just incredible. Every time I've seen it I have drooled. I don't think Maureen is going to let me sneak it out though

.

Good luck with your project and have fun with it. Like everything else, there will be a plethora of opinions on woods, design, materials, etc. and everyone will be correct to their experience. If you want to try something, then why not. What it will be when you are finished is a lot more than just the woods and parts. In the meantime, whatever you chose to do may be fun for all of us to watch.

**Lefty Luthier** · Mar-02-2010, 1:02pm

Originally Posted by Geoff B

Perhaps off topic, but the resoluteness of this statement has me wanting to know more about what you mean by "correct mandolin dimensions" and "good acoustics".

I thinned a rosewood back to 0.090 in the center and 0.070 near the rim and the resonant frequency was still over 200 Hz, which I consider far too high. I generally shoot for 132 Hz with red maple, which gives the best sound.

**JEStanek** · Mar-02-2010, 1:32pm

My question for those of you (esp. Chris Baird) is I have often seen these exotic woods on flat back mandolins, how often have you used them for carved arched backs and were the tone color results as noticable as they are with flatback mandolins with different backs? I have a carved back mandolin made of walnut that sounds very different from the maple ones I've played. I would guess each wood has it's own learning curve to get the best sound with each application (flat or carved back).

Jamie

PS I singled out Chris b/c I use his tonewoods page as an excellent referenece when people are asking about tonewoods on flat top/back mandolins.

**slausonm** · Mar-02-2010, 8:05pm

Originally Posted by Justin E.

...and where to get it. I've got a cocobolo board that I was saving to make some guitars out of that I can get a 1 piece back out of. I'm just curious about your opinions on this. Thank you!

I live not too far from a supplier in Memphis NY that sells small and large quantities of hard woods including some of the exotics that you mentioned. He ships mail order all over the country and is an honest and nice guy to deal with. He is not a supplier specific to the music trade. http://www.memphishardwoodlumber.com/ All of the wood for my mass production was purchased from Paul...Except for the tops. He also has thickness sanding capability as well as laser engraving equipment.

Matt

**Justin E.** · Mar-03-2010, 8:42am

Cool! Thank you!

**Justin E.** · Mar-03-2010, 10:15am

Also, I know that a lot of rosewoods are not necessarily stable and prone to cracking. Since I'll be putting a rosewood neck, would I have to put any type of reinforcment in it other than the truss rod, such as steel reinforcing rods/bars into the neck joint?

**Big Joe** · Mar-03-2010, 10:48am

Standard supports are fine, but the wilder the grain on your rosewood the more likely you are to have twisting of the neck material. Mahogany is often used for necks... especially on guitars for that reason. Maple makes a good neck wood as well. Rosewood can be used on a neck, but just as with the body it will affect ultimate tone. Should look cool when finished though.

**Justin E.** · Mar-03-2010, 10:53am

Thank you! I'm going to take pictures and post them just about everywhere I can about this, the banjo I'm planning on building for myself and my dream guitar, a copy of a Martin D-45 with some personal twists to make it unique.

**Mario Proulx** · Mar-04-2010, 12:10am

I've built a carved A-5 of cocobolo; worked great, sounds great. I build more guitars with cocobolo than any other wood, so I do take extra precautions to hopefully prevent myself from becoming sensitized to it. That said, it planes nice, and scrapes beautifully. No issues at all; just work it a lot thinner than you would maple, but it's a strong, stable wood, so no issues there.

Go for it!