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Thread: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

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    Jake's Gig
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    Question What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Watching a youtube clip of Chris Thile recently, I couldn't help but think of YoYo Ma and the physical effects of prolonged playing has on the body. Chris is stooped over his mando, and being a tall guy, I suspect over time, posture, back problems and other issues arise. As I recently have increased my playing time with the purchase of a lovely Laplant mando, I am noticing some wrist and arm effect. Can others comment on some 'overuse' effects and ways to avoid them?

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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Well...I'm just a beginner myself but there's some YouTube links that a guy on these forums posted. He says his technique evolved from physical problems he developed and the techniques he describes were recommended by a doctor that treated him for his ailments. His name is Pete Martin. You can search YouTube under his name.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Personally,i think the main reason that Chris Thile 'leans forward' over his Mandolin, is to be able to hear the volume & more importantly,the tone that he's producing in any tune that he plays. Try it for yourself. Lean forward just enough to bring your ears over the top of the Mandolin & the sound will be much different to what you hear from behind. It seems like i'm stating the screamingly obvious,but it's surprising how many of us judge the tone & volume of our own instruments from the back of it - you can't really hear it that way. The best way of hearing what an instrument sounds like,is to get another player (a good one if possible), to play it for you. Only then can you hear what it will sound like to others,
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Good point Ivan. If I played anything like CT, I'd lean over as far as I could to hear better.

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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    This guy's question has already been lost in the shuffle.

    Pay attention to repetitive injury in relation to musicians. If you put hours into your playing each day, or even weekly, it's a serious threat to your health and playing future if you don't heed the warnings. Playing posture, how you hold your instrument, how you warm-up (if you do at all)...these issues and more can help you play unimpeded into your old age.

    there are the fortunate few whom never developed problems...but more and more the majority of players seem to be having serious problems after 10+ years (trigger finger, etc).

    There are some excellent resources for musician's injuries (surgical fixes and prevention) out there on the Internet. Some great therapists and doctors in NYC and Nashville.

    Do yourselves a favor -- don't think this is not a serious issue, then find yourself in trouble down the road. Take care of your body parts!

    It's been addressed on this website and elsewhere in the past. Take advantage of the preventive suggestions by professionals (therapists, etc)...it's all out there...and it's free.

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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Yes overuse (repetitive motion) can result in an injury. In the wonderful Fretboard Journal article on Andy Statman a couple years ago, he mentioned how he had to balance his clarinet playing with the mandolin to prevent problems. Any physical job, if the motions are repeated, can result in injuries.

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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    My advice that I wish I would have followed: stretch your wrists, hands, and fingers before playing, every time; and the moment you feel pain anywhere stop and take a break until the pain goes away. I recently developed 'dynamic' carpal tunnel syndrome from playing 2-5 hours a day and working through the pain. CTS (and tendonitis) are not problems that you can work through. I'm only 31, so this can happen at any age.

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    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    I have been concerned a bit with repetitive injury as I've played for a couple of square dances recently. The caller let the songs go for a long time - seemed like a Grateful Dead or Allman Bros. jam length. My left hand become pretty fatiqued. We have a fiddler who would play all night without a break, if you let him. I find the breaks between sets to be a much needed recovery period.
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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    They key folks is to listen to your body. If you have pain there's a reason. If you feel discomfort there's a reason. It might be as simple as lengthening or shortening your strap now and then to change the position of your arm.

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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    The most frequent injury I have is to my Ego

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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    The hunched over body stance is something to watch out for, I think. When I pick at home, usu. sitting down, but my position is 'seated up' - straight back mostly, with strap on. I know some folks pick whilst watching TV, at a bit of a slouch. That position never feels comfortable to me and does not allow for my best picking.

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    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    It's been said and should be said again: pay attention to your body. this isn't a contest -- nobody gives you points for being tough; you get points for playing well. If something hurts, modify your practice. I developed some osteoarthritis in my left hand (the shooting pains were a gentle suggestion I should, uh, ease up) and knocked back practice to every other day. I, too, bend over my instrument when I play, and I make a conscious effort to straighten up and breathe, in part because my back was beginning to ache once I stopped and relaxed. Neck and right shoulder pain are also issues that come from poor posture and positioning. So, yes, overuse injury is common, as it is with any repetitive motion (I used to get a locked right pinky when I played flute for any length of time, f'rinstance).
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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    The website "musicians and Injuries" is a great place to start finding info about this stuff. Stretch, keep yourself in good physical condition, listen to your body, see a professional when you have pain issues, all are good advice.

    A common time to get overuse injuries is when you quickly increase your work load. Increase your practice time GRADUALLY over a few weeks. Also around 40 years of age is very common for these to start happening. There are a lot of other risks factors as well.

    I posted a number of Utube vids on good ergonomic basics of mando playing as taught me by a terrific performing arts doc when I was having a lot of problems. You can go to my website to get the links to those.

    I think that Mandolin Cafe should put a separate category for injuries to be discussed. I brought this up with Scott a couple of years ago, but he told me he didn't think there was enough traffic on this subject for a seperate category. I see this a fair amount and have answerd a lot of these questions. If a number of us asked, maybe he would do it.
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Martin View Post
    The website "musicians and Injuries" is a great place to start finding info about this stuff. Stretch, keep yourself in good physical condition, listen to your body, see a professional when you have pain issues, all are good advice.

    A common time to get overuse injuries is when you quickly increase your work load. Increase your practice time GRADUALLY over a few weeks. Also around 40 years of age is very common for these to start happening. There are a lot of other risks factors as well.

    I posted a number of Utube vids on good ergonomic basics of mando playing as taught me by a terrific performing arts doc when I was having a lot of problems. You can go to my website to get the links to those.

    I think that Mandolin Cafe should put a separate category for injuries to be discussed. I brought this up with Scott a couple of years ago, but he told me he didn't think there was enough traffic on this subject for a seperate category. I see this a fair amount and have answerd a lot of these questions. If a number of us asked, maybe he would do it.
    I second that emotion.

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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    I would most respectfully oppose the motion--too much temptation to bring out the hyperchondriacs. Ever listen around the locker room when all the guys are complaining about their aches and pains and comparing their surgeries--drives me crazy. We need to quit complaining and play as hard as we can til we die.

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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    I have struggled with tendonitis in both arms for years now. I remember at IBMA we were to follow Nickel Creek and I could barely hold onto my pick. It would flare up and die down on me. I eventually quit touring and didnt play mando for quite a few months to let it die down. It has, but I will still struggle with it if I overuse it in any way. My wife had sent me to a specialist and all he recommended was "quit playing if it hurts". He also said I was likely to experience this as long as I kept playing instruments that required this same repetitive motions. So, I can testify to the fact that you have a good chance at injuring yourself to the point of possibly not being able to play anymore or with limitations.

    Piper, I dont like complaining...or listening to it either, but some things need to be brought up so we dont act like Lemmings! If you continue to follow "play as hard as you can till we die" as I did too....you might end up not being able to.

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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    No harm intended Jeff--just trying to bring out a bit of levity. Of course, you are right--if it hurts alot then don't do it. But then again, everything worthwhile in life hurts a bit some of the time, but my point was--never give up til you have to. Everyone is different and everyone comes to the table with different weaknesses and strengths. Sooo, those who don't hurt too much--keep on strummin' and don't look back.

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    Registered User mandotool's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    second the motion for a forum on injury and recovery....
    I'm dealing with some severe left hand issues...and am pretty much out of commission at the moment...
    I was chuggin along pretty good for the last 30+ years or so and then out of nowhere...
    my left hand feels like a box of rocks...
    I've got an appointment with an orthopedic Dr.
    fingers crossed...
    Thomas Quinn

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    Registered User man dough nollij's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piper View Post
    No harm intended Jeff--just trying to bring out a bit of levity.
    Oh, great! Now you tell me you were kidding, after I picked my arm off...

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Martin View Post
    ...I think that Mandolin Cafe should put a separate category for injuries to be discussed. I brought this up with Scott a couple of years ago, but he told me he didn't think there was enough traffic on this subject for a seperate category. I see this a fair amount and have answerd a lot of these questions. If a number of us asked, maybe he would do it.
    I know this sounds odd but it's really an easy thing to do to establish a Social Group. That gives the members a place to go to discuss issues regarding any subject. No extra work for Scott and it becomes the repository for the information. You can link back to messages and threads that already exist as well as to outside sites and videos.

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    Jake's Gig
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    This has been a great discussion folks...My first thread, so very helpful with appropriate cautionary insights to the coming months/ years of playing. I would welcome a social group to focus on such a topic.
    Moderator...I don't know how to insert a post-script to my replies...can you advise....thanks.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Quote :- " This guy's question has already been lost in the shuffle". Not really Kevin. In my post,i was addressing a 'point' raised by the OP,not answering the question as such ie. " Chris is stooped over his mando, and being a tall guy, I suspect over time, posture, back problems and other issues arise." .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIzKsNIRrV4
    ALL the many Classical ( & Flamenco ) Guitarists that i've seen do exactly the same for exactly the same reason. Tone & expression is a huge part of their musical technique (as it should be for all of us) & you don't hear much by leaning back,away from the instrument.
    On a personal note (B-flat), if i leaned forward that way,due to chronic back pain,i'd never walk upright again,
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    I suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome. i believe that i originally got it from years of incorrect posture and technique. Once you got carpal tunnel it never goes away. I was told the only thing that would help me was surgery which i refuse to get since it doesn't have a good track record. Correcting my bad habits have made living with it easier. It has reduced a lot of the pain. Not all of it though. I play multi instruments and am self taught. I believe that was my main problem since i never had no one to teach me correct posture and techniques. Someone mentioned Chris Thile's posture and when i watched his homespun dvd the first thing i said to my self was OUCH! Genius or not he's asking for trouble in the future....Mike

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    A few days ago,this gave me pause for thought. If somebody came along to us when we were in our teens & asked us " would you like to maybe spend up to half your life with 16 lbs of wood & metal slung around your neck ? " - not an option for most of us ,but that's what Bluegrass Banjo players accept if they want to play in a band using a well made instrument. Believe me,it's no joke. In the past,i've played up to 4 x 45 min.sets & if i'd maybe done it for long enough as many pro.players have,i'd be wondering if that was a contributing factor in my back pain. Even though i only had a band together for around 4 years,i suppose it still could be if i was particularly susceptible to that type of injury,
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ail's the mandolin player? Is overuse injury common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piper View Post
    We need to quit complaining and play as hard as we can til we die.
    ...which will be all the sooner then
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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