Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: A40-tuners without screws

  1. #1
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default A40-tuners without screws

    Since I don't want to hijack someone elses thread about A40 mandolins, I will put my questions here: My A40N is without any numbers at all.Is this normal? It also has got tuners without screws (non-adjustable).Hence I know next to nothing about production year,but is probably a late forties model. Can anyone provide some information in spite of the minimum of info I can give?
    Thanks!
    John

  2. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    I think those tuners will place it earlier. I've had them on Strad-O-Lins and seen them on Gibsons. There's one in the Gruhn book with those tuners. I'll see if I can find it, I think it was dated in the Gruhn book. I am assuming those tuners were used in a very small window. I haven't seen a whole lot of them. Post a picture of the mandolin front and back as well as shots of the front and the back of the headstock.

  3. #3
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Thanks for the reply! I'll try to get some shots in a day or two (I am a bad photographer, but I'll give it a shot).When you mention earlier, do you mean the first production year,1947?

  4. #4
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Outer Spiral Arm, of Galaxy, NW Oregon.
    Posts
    17,103

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    The ones I know of have a screw holding the round gear to the shaft.
    it's not an adjustment, its how the part is built.

    One doesn't adjust the wheel bearings with the lug nuts, either..
    Klusons fold a box over the gear its a cover with an oil hole.


    there are tiny screws that hold on buttons , they are not for adjusting anything either ..


    more friction can be made with individual guitar tuners [ Knobs , Metal], that have a die cast housing and a cover pressed in,sealing in a greased gear set.

    not 4 on a plate mandolin parts.
    Last edited by mandroid; Dec-26-2009 at 11:37pm.
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  5. #5
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    What he is referring to is a point in time where the screw that holds the post to the cog wasn't used. It appears they simply dropped a little hot brass on the spot and welded the connection instead of using a screw. It's an open tuner and I haven't had time to dig out the Gruhn book. They have a picture of them on a Gibson A. I always assumed they were from the early 40's but they may have been post war. I'm going to guess they couldn't get the screws and produced the tuners any way they could.

  6. #6
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    OK, I couldn't find what I was looking for in the Gruhn book, it may or may not be there. I have it somewhere. What I did find was a picture on Frank Ford's www.frets.com of a 1942 Gibson L-00 guitar with the tuners in question. Note the lump where the screw should be. On this one they plated the brass. I'm assuming, and this is strictly conjecture, that the war effort was making it hard to get certain parts and this was a work around. I suppose that a mandolin made right after the war ended could have been made with the same style tuner.


  7. #7
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Those look a lot like mine, ex mine are more "brass-coloured" and fastened to the headstock with three instead of four screws on each side.Maybe the colouring is just the age...

  8. #8
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Outer Spiral Arm, of Galaxy, NW Oregon.
    Posts
    17,103

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    perhaps the round gear, after the shaft for the string was passed thru the mounting plate
    was riveted on by re shaping the end of the brass string capstan to hold the gear on.
    the pieces at either end of the worm gear that the knob shaft rotate in, are swadged into the backing plate, another riveting on process..

    perhaps screw making machines were getting used to make the War's weapon parts..

    before there were more manufacturing tools made again for civilian use.
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  9. #9
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    If you look closely at one without the plating it looks like they just dripped a little brass on there, they don't look like rivets. Mine were brass colored as well.

  10. #10
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Outer Spiral Arm, of Galaxy, NW Oregon.
    Posts
    17,103

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    The rest of the shaft steel, Mike? then, probably, it was brazed in place.

    perhaps the whole thing got a few microns of nickel plated on afterwards..
    in the guitar gears shown, plastic knobs went on last.
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  11. #11
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Yes, the rest appears to be steel and I'm sure the buttons went on last.

  12. #12
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Tried to post some pictures here..Hope I made it, never done it before...

  13. #13
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	29122009006.jpg 
Views:	143 
Size:	124.2 KB 
ID:	48664

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	29122009007.jpg 
Views:	134 
Size:	144.8 KB 
ID:	48665

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	29122009008.jpg 
Views:	168 
Size:	138.2 KB 
ID:	48666

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	29122009009.jpg 
Views:	132 
Size:	141.8 KB 
ID:	48667

    Maybe now...

  14. #14
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Yup, that's what they look like.

  15. #15
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    I guess it's impossible to know what year the instrument was made...

  16. #16
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Not really, let me look at the Gruhn book this evening to get some idea from the other identifying markers there. That headstock logo and the finish should provide some clues.

  17. #17
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Thank you! You also suggested that these tuners were in a small window. Maybe that would be a help..Sorry for the bad photo quality.Bad equipment and worse photographer...

  18. #18
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    They may have been in a larger window than I thought. Gibson could have found a box of tuners in the Warehouse as well and put them on a production run, who knows.

  19. #19
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Happy New Year!
    Just wanted to hear if Mike Edgerton (or anyone else out there) found out anything about what year my A40 was built..
    Thanks!
    John

  20. #20
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Outer Spiral Arm, of Galaxy, NW Oregon.
    Posts
    17,103

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    You look inside with an Inspection/dentist's mirror for numbers? , that will have more time frame meaning
    than which bin the tuners came out of.

    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  21. #21
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Have looked but haven't found anything.

  22. #22
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    OK, the A-40 was available 48-70 per the Gruhn book. If somebody has another source that changes that let me know. The logo on yours appears to be the 47-51 logo per the description Gruhn gives. Tom (f5loar) mentioned in another post that some of these did not have the cross brace on the back and as he has first hand knowledge of these mandolins I accept that as the way it was. The Gruhn book says it's supposed to have the brace but I've found examples of later models without it. I've seen early known A-40's and they all had it. If we go by the dates that logo was used and the fact that the brace is gone, I would think that would put this in the later part of that 47-51 period. Interesting enough the 50's models that I can find examples of have the closed Kluson tuners and the plates are the same as these tuners. If I wanted to sacrifice a set of good Kluson's I guess I could pull the little box off and find out if the tuner post is brazed on, I just don't want to do that. My feeling is that your mandolin has to be in that 48-51 period.

  23. #23
    Registered User John Kinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    692

    Default Re: A40-tuners without screws

    Thank you very much! That's good enough for me. If any other would like to chime in here, feel free...Whatever year it was made, it sure is a fine little mando!

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •