1936 Gibson F4

**Tom Glen** · Dec-24-2009, 12:14pm

I found a 1937 Gibson F4 that is for sale and I am interested in acquiring the mandolin but wanted some input from the knowledgable people on this board before I decide. I played the guitar for several years before I started playing the mandolin a little over a year ago. I know many of you guys have been around vintage Gibsons for many years. How do the 30s F4s compare with the teens and 20s F4s, i.e., tone, quality of build, current value, prospect for future increase in value, etc. Thanks for any help you can provide.

**Ken Waltham** · Dec-24-2009, 1:56pm

Hi there.
My own personal opinion, for what it is worth, is buy one from the "classic" period instead.
A teens or twenties F4 is a better instrument, prettier, better made, and has much more refinement.
1937 is the depression, mandolins are out of vogue, and all this shows in the instruments of the mandolin family, IMHO.
Some people say they are "louder", etc, but, I think that's because they want to sell.
There are so many, many more teens and twenties F4's than the 30's ones, that it should be no problem to find several for sale.
Merry Christmas!
Ken

**Glassweb** · Dec-24-2009, 3:07pm

for the most part i agree with everything Ken said above (Happy Holidays Ken!). but i once bought a mint F4 from that era that had one of the most fantastic oval-hole sounds you've ever heard. Loud, bright and complex... perfect balance... and it had barely been played. i think Grisman owns it now or did own it for a long time. interesting appointments as well... metal tuning keys, lovely, rich chocolate brown flamed maple back and sides and a perfect dark-to-light sunburst top. The headstock was larger than a 20's F4, but did not look at all out of balance. all in all, one of the best F4s i've ever owned. if you have a picture please post... we can give you some more info about the exact model once we see it. wouldn't want to speculate on possible appreciation, but i know these sell for alot more now than when i purchased mine! ah, dems was de days...

**Goodin** · Dec-24-2009, 8:46pm

I totally agree with Ken.

I haven't played a 1930's F-4 so I can't comment on the tone but I have followed the sale of these recently. They seem to be priced the same as a teens/early twenties F-4 and I agree with Ken that I would stick with the golden era of the F-4 at that price range. In the teens/early twenties the F-4 was the top of the line instrument and the quality was top notch then. They are much more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion. Also, pre 1918 you can get the Handel tuners. For a Loar period F-4 you will spend a few thousand more but it might be worth the extra dough in the long run as I have heard oval holes from this period are undervalued. Another thing to consider is a Loar period F-2 and you could have some spare change compared to buying a 30's F-4.

**allenhopkins** · Dec-25-2009, 1:19am

Depression-era F-4's are rarities, as (1) Gibson built fewer mandolins in the '30's, and (2) the focus shifted to the f-hole models (F-5, F-7, F-10, F-12). In the mid-'30's, Gibson stopped putting binding around the headstock and replaced the fancy headstock inlays with a plain diamond. Prices I've seen range from $5K (Boston Craigslist) to $6.5K (Denver Folklore Center). This seems to be slightly under 1920's models, more comparable to 'teens (pre-Loar) prices. The F-4 was discontinued early in WWII.

I've been a tiny bit skeptical about the "Loar era" designation for models that Loar never signed. Are they really better built than ones before or after? While a late-'30's F-4 won't have as nice inlay as an earlier model, and of course won't have Handel tuners, I think an opinion as to its sound and playability could only be arrived at by a hands-on comparison. And, since it's hard to find several F-4's in one place, such comparisons are difficult to accomplish.

Elderly currently has two 1920 F-4's for sale for under $5K. There's a 1919 here for just under $6K.

Without knowing the price of the '37, hard to say where it would fit in this price hierarchy. I would venture to say that the large majority of F-4's going on the market predate this one by 15 years or more. The oval-hole, F-style instrument was definitely on its way out in Gibson's estimation at the time it was made. For that reason, and without playing it, I'd say it's marginally less attractive than an early '20's F-4, despite its rarity. But that subjective opinion says nothing of its acoustic value. It is still a quality instrument, the top oval-hole mandolin Gibson made, and, depending on its price and condition, could be a very good acquisition.

**Goodin** · Dec-25-2009, 1:02pm

There is a 1940 F-4 with an elevated fingerboard at Mandolin World Headquarters for $6500. Thats about what a clean pre-loar F-4 is going for. Here is a very nice 1915 F-4 at Greg Boyd's...http://gregboyd.com/instrument_detai...rument_key=632. If I we're in the market for an F-4 I'd get this one. Very clean, got the double flower pot, handels, and it sounds fantastic.

In my opinion, and some others, the golden era of the F-4 was when they started using the elevated pickguard to the end of the Handel tuners..about 1912-1917 (might be off slightly on the dates). They quit using the Handels about when WW1 started.

The Loar period instruments definitely command a premium and I think alot of it has to do with the introduction of the truss rod (also snakeheads, and Virzi) but mostly the Loar mojo. Although almost every Loar period instrument I have played sounds superb.

All that being said though..if the 1937 F-4 speaks to you then buy it! It's all what makes you happy because it will be your baby.

**Tom Glen** · Dec-25-2009, 1:10pm

I just got back in town and have read all of your posts. Thanks so much to all for your valuable input. The 1937 F4 is for sale at VintageFret.com and the price is $5,100. This is probably not a bad price and the mandolin looks to be in good condition. Indeed, when I sent an email inquiring about the mandolin the owner emailed me back and offered to send it to me for a two day trial. I was hesitant to agree because I have been interested in the early F4s for a while now and your knowledgable input has confirmed what I was already thinking. Based on your input, I think an early F4 will be a better choice for me. I tried to research the 1930s Gibson F4s and could not find very much helpful information and that is when I turned to you seasoned veterans for help. Thanks again for taking your time to help me. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you!

**Glassweb** · Dec-25-2009, 2:07pm

ah... this one is later than the one i had... mine actually had a bound headstock, a different inlay (maybe a flowerpot) and didn't have an elevated board. this one doesn't strike me as a "must have" example of a Gibson F4...

**Goodin** · Dec-25-2009, 3:47pm

Im not crazy about how they didnt get the "Gibson" logo centered very well. The "G" is almost off the headstock! What's with the bridge? Is it maple? Is that original for this period? It doesn't look so to me but I am not very knowledgeable on late F-4's. The price seems about right though, and it's i good shape... and I bet it can be talked down some.

**Bernie Daniel** · Dec-25-2009, 7:31pm

Its a pretty mandolin.

But I agree with the above comment -- the headstock on this era is not my favorite -- the diamond and the off-center script -- but that has been what I have seen on most of them in that period.

I do like the dressing on the end of the fingerboard and the fact that these had an inlaid dot on the third fret unlike the 20's models.

But one thing I will wager is that if a player buys this mandolin he/she will want to replace that bridge. In my experience these 40 - 50's era Gibson rosewood bridges (I've had three of them) with the large thumbscrews leave a lot to be desired. I eventually replaced all three of the ones I had with rosewood Cumberland Acoustics bridges for MUCH better projection. (I went with rosewood to match the fingerboard wood not because I think it better than ebony.)

Also I think many would prefer the neck profile in the early 20's F-4's over this more rounded one -- this '37 neck profile looks like the kind put on late 40's to 50's F-12's?

**scott sander** · Jan-04-2010, 1:30pm

I have a mandolin that belonged to my Garandmother that i think is an F4 from between 1900-1910. the logo says The Gibson and is on an angle. I also have a Gibson guitar that matches and was played by her sister at that time. They both need restoration and i am wondering about costs, values, etc. Any input would be appreciated

**Goodin** · Jan-04-2010, 1:32pm

Originally Posted by scott sander

I have a mandolin that belonged to my Garandmother that i think is an F4 from between 1900-1910. the logo says The Gibson and is on an angle. I also have a Gibson guitar that matches and was played by her sister at that time. They both need restoration and i am wondering about costs, values, etc. Any input would be appreciated

How about you start a new thread in this section with a detailed description of the mandolin, including the serial number and detailed pics. Then we can go from there.

**MANDOLINMYSTER** · Jan-04-2010, 1:42pm

Originally Posted by scott sander

I have a mandolin that belonged to my Garandmother that i think is an F4 from between 1900-1910. the logo says The Gibson and is on an angle. I also have a Gibson guitar that matches and was played by her sister at that time. They both need restoration and i am wondering about costs, values, etc. Any input would be appreciated

Look at the label inside for a serial number and model number that will really help. Regarding restoration there are many folks here, but finding someone in your local area who is compitent would be best.

**Bob A** · Jan-04-2010, 3:42pm

By the mid-30s the mandolin boom was over by fifteen or more years. The workers responsible for the best Gibsons were old or retired, the skill sets needed were deteriorated at best. Certainly mandolins from that period were rare; that in itself does not make them more valuable. I would argue that the best case to be made for them was as interesting objects for a hard-core collector, more for studious interest than as fine examples of this style of mandolin.

I don't see them as being more sought-after for any particular reason; that is not to say that they are less or more suitable for actually playing. In fact, in my experience, any Gibson mandolin must be evaluated in hand. Some are wonderful, some are dogs, and you can't tell by the date or model which are which.