Information on a 1918 Martin?

**VT Andy** · Dec-20-2009, 8:46am

Hello everyone.
I recently have inherited my grandfathers' model A. It has some condition issues, including a cracked heel. My goal would be to have it repaired to playable condition so I can learn how to play. I don't feel the need to restore it at this time.
It is stamped on the back of the headstock (and inside) Oliver Ditson Co. I have come to understand that Martin (and other makers) made instruments as house brands for the Ditson Co. Martin did it between 1917-1919 and again 1923-1930. The serial number fits according the Martin website.
In all of my searching, I have only seen pictures of two other Ditson Martins; one guitar and one mandolin. I haven't seen that many more Martin mandolins for sale either. If Martin made mandolins for 85 years, why are there so few around? Would the Ditson stamp change the value against one labeled Martin?
Were they just not built well? Or does everyone love them so much they are never parted with?
Thanks for your input.

**allenhopkins** · Dec-20-2009, 12:24pm

Martin mandolins are indeed well-built and sweet-sounding instruments. They're just not fashionable, as compared with Gibsons and mandolins patterned on Gibsons. I just bought a 1920 Style A, and like it a lot. It's not as loud or as percussive as a carved-top Gibson. Most of the Martin mandolins, once they stopped making bowl-backs around 1924, were flat-back, canted-top (or "bent-top"), oval-hole instruments made with mahogany or rosewood back and sides, quite different from the carved-top, maple-back-and-sides mandolins Gibson built. As mandolin playing became more and more associated with bluegrass, the softer, sweeter-sounding Martins passed out of favor. Martin did make some f-hole, carved-top mandolins in the late 1930's, but not a significant number, and World War II brought an end to that production.

According to Mike Longworth's Martin Guitars: A History, the company made over 17 thousand Style A mandolins between 1914 and 1973. So there are lots of them out there. And because -- despite what you've seen -- Martin made many instruments for Oliver Ditson Co. and labeled them "Ditson," I would say that the "Ditson" stamp wouldn't make a great deal of difference in the mandolin's value one way or another. It's a bit rarer than a "non-Ditson" Martin, but not enough so to be significant, IMHO.

Hope you enjoy your Martin; I'm having lots of fun with mine. It's a well-made instrument, with an easy-to-play short scale, and very comfortable to learn on. My 1920 Style A probably is valued at about a quarter of an equivalent Gibson A-1 from around the same time; all that price differential signifies, is the way mandolin tastes have developed over the past 90 or so years.

**VT Andy** · Dec-20-2009, 5:17pm

Thanks for your comments Allen. It is a simple, quality instrument. And is perfect for a beginner such as myself. The fact that it's a family piece gives me more reason to learn. It feels more like a parlor instrument than a performance one, which is the setting I'd be playing in. Monetary value is really only important for insurance purposes.

**MikeEdgerton** · Dec-20-2009, 5:56pm

Is it stamped Martin as well as Ditson? Can you post some pictures?

**Bob DeVellis** · Dec-20-2009, 8:29pm

I've always been a fan of the Martin flatbacks. Allen summed things up very nicely. Be sure to get the neck crack properly repaired. This is a nice enough instrument to deserve more than just a makeshift fix.

Is this a mahogany instrument? Martin mad both mahogany and rosewood but the best sellers were the mahogany models. I would suspect that Ditson had a larger market for the mahoganys but that's just speculation on my part. Both can be very good sounding and will be excellent for learning just about anything but bluegrass. Even for bluegrass, it'll get you started although it won't have the iconic tone of an f-hole.

Enjoy it!

**allenhopkins** · Dec-20-2009, 10:37pm

Style A was mahogany back and sides, Style B was rosewood. I gather VT Andy has a Style A.

**VT Andy** · Dec-21-2009, 9:52am

I would be happy to post some photos if only I knew how. My IT support is off at work, so it's not happening soon. However, go www.earlymartin.com and scroll almost to the bottom, and you'll find a photo of a Ditson Model A. In essence, it's exactly Grampas instrument. There are big differences in condition though.
Mine has a spruce top, like the photos, and mahogany for the rest of it. The model A was also made in koa, and surprisingly enough, known as model AK. Model B has a mildly carved headstock, as opposed to the simple, squared shape on the A.
It is not stamped Martin, but there are too many matching details for it to be any other maker. It retailed for $26, and the koa $34.
I can't say for sure about the market at the time, but Ditson did something no other retailer had done. By having house brands, they could stock different levels of instruments from different maker all under one roof, thereby giving customers choices. It used to be one would go to a maker and buy their instrument, or you'd go to a different maker until you found what you wanted. With the Ditson Company, it became one stop shopping, as Ditson also published music. Builder benefitted, as the retail order could be dozens or even hundreds of instruments.
There; hours of research into a paragraph history lesson!

**MikeEdgerton** · Dec-21-2009, 10:24am

The A and AK are well known here, as are the B and the Ditson brand name. Some were marked with both brands, as were the Wurlitzer models made by Martin as well. Ditson also had models that were very similar though not exact manufactured by another manufacturer. The private labeled instruments made by othe rmanufacturers were not unique to Ditson. Sears and Wards were doing the same thing as well. I'm sure many others were in that same game as well even early on.

**allenhopkins** · Dec-21-2009, 11:39am

Weymann made a bunch of instruments for Keystone State Music in PA, labeled "Weymann Keystone State." The Larson brothers, legendary Chicago luthiers, made instruments for a variety of labels, including Southern California Music Co. in Los Angeles, and those had a store label. Of course, there are the "catalog" labels, like Supertone, Silvertone, Airline etc. that were made for mail order sales by the big catalog stores; many large-volume instrument manufacturers had contracts with Sears and Montgomery Ward to build for their nameplates.

Same thing's going on now, with a bunch of proprietary "brands" of imported Asian instruments, like the Trinity River ones cropping up in Texas, or the Mastercraft instruments sold by Mandolin Hut (and the other "Huts" in that operation; I'm waiting to buy from Psaltery Hut).

**Bennett** · Dec-30-2009, 3:03am

Nice to see some positive words about the old Martin flatbacks. I have a 1925 Style A, bought a couple of months ago, that I like very much indeed. It is a pleasure to play, and its warm tone seems perfect for folk music and for accompanying singing...

**Michael Gowell** · Dec-30-2009, 11:31am

That photo site of early Martins is wonderful. Thanks for the heads-up.

**Zigeuner** · Jan-02-2010, 12:38am

Originally Posted by allenhopkins

Martin mandolins are indeed well-built and sweet-sounding instruments. They're just not fashionable, as compared with Gibsons and mandolins patterned on Gibsons. I just bought a 1920 Style A, and like it a lot. It's not as loud or as percussive as a carved-top Gibson. Most of the Martin mandolins, once they stopped making bowl-backs around 1924, were flat-back, canted-top (or "bent-top"), oval-hole instruments made with mahogany or rosewood back and sides, quite different from the carved-top, maple-back-and-sides mandolins Gibson built. As mandolin playing became more and more associated with bluegrass, the softer, sweeter-sounding Martins passed out of favor. Martin did make some f-hole, carved-top mandolins in the late 1930's, but not a significant number, and World War II brought an end to that production.

According to Mike Longworth's Martin Guitars: A History, the company made over 17 thousand Style A mandolins between 1914 and 1973. So there are lots of them out there. And because -- despite what you've seen -- Martin made many instruments for Oliver Ditson Co. and labeled them "Ditson," I would say that the "Ditson" stamp wouldn't make a great deal of difference in the mandolin's value one way or another. It's a bit rarer than a "non-Ditson" Martin, but not enough so to be significant, IMHO.

Hope you enjoy your Martin; I'm having lots of fun with mine. It's a well-made instrument, with an easy-to-play short scale, and very comfortable to learn on. My 1920 Style A probably is valued at about a quarter of an equivalent Gibson A-1 from around the same time; all that price differential signifies, is the way mandolin tastes have developed over the past 90 or so years.

I have a 1964 Model "A" Martin Mandolin that I bought new. It was $84.50, IIRC. It's really opened up in the past 20 years and has a nice sweet sound. I especially like the short scale compared to my 1917 A-3 and 1949 F-12. I'm not making comparisons to Gibson but the quality of the build on the little Martin is superb.

Edit: I looked at the above link that shows the Ditson "A" and, other than the missing Martin Logo, it's a Martin A in every respect.

I also rummaged around in my computer a few minutes ago and found a picture of my small mandolin collection. Left to right. '64 Martin A, '49 Gibson F12 and '17 Gibson A-3. My mother bought the Martin for me for my birthday and the two Gibsons came from my Uncle's estate about 25 years ago.

**8ch(pl)** · Jan-02-2010, 4:58pm

Actually the carved top 2-15 model was made into the 1960's. I played one dated 1962.

**brunello97** · Jan-02-2010, 7:03pm

Very pretty mando-posse Herr Gypsy. What more does one need than that?

Mick

**Zigeuner** · Jan-02-2010, 7:51pm

Originally Posted by brunello97

Very pretty mando-posse Herr Gypsy. What more does one need than that?

Mick

Thanks. It's more than enough of a collection given the fact that I won't be going on the road anytime soon. It's good enough to enjoy them at home and appreciate a forum such as this. The history surrounding mandolins is a very interesting study and there are lots of folks around here who contribute nicely.

And, of course, if I happen run across a genuine dated and signed Loar Gibson at a local garage sale, I'll be well-informed. LOL.