Don't do this!!!

**Big Joe** · Nov-05-2009, 8:34pm

One of my customers asked me to post this for everyone. He is a very nice gentleman and a good mandolin player and very fussy about his equipment. I guess that is why he got into the mess he did

.

His mandolin was getting a bit funky under the strings near the bridge. He wanted to clean it and saw a can of air he used on his computer keyboard. He thought that would be an easy way to blow away the dust and skin cells from the top of his instrument. When he called he said he did that. He asked if I knew what happened next. I replied yes I do. It cracked the finish. He went on to explain that it indeed did crack the finish.

Compressed air in a can has chemicals in it that will crack the finish on your varnish or lacquer mandolins. It is one of many things used in a distressing process to accomplish certain cracking patterns. If you spray anything on your instrument you risk destroying the finish on your mandolin.

In this case, we were able to repair the finish to as good as new without having to redo the finish. The cracks are now gone, but it is not a DIY project by any means. Even then, we would not guarantee we could repair the finish. It turned out we could, but it was not a very inexpensive process. It was certainly more expensive than properly cleaning the instrument. He will have his mandolin back in a few days in new condition. However, this is one repair that we hope does not have to be repeated by anyone.

If you want a "distressed" mandolin, let a professional do it. While this is a way to crack a finish, it is not the only one and not always the best. Just remember to be careful about anything you put on your instrument. There are many things you would not think about that can ruin your finish. When in doubt, ask someone who would know and ask if they would do it to their instrument. In the end, if there is a question about whether it is a good idea, it usually is not.

There, I've done my duty for my friend and customer. We both hope you fare better than he and not do the same. And, remember, friends don't let friends play banjo!

.

**Dfyngravity** · Nov-05-2009, 8:47pm

Like micro fiber cleaning cloths, they can damage the finish.....trust me I know from experience.

**Tim2723** · Nov-05-2009, 9:05pm

Pure compressed air of the sort used to blow dust from fine optics is just that: clean, dry air under pressure. Keyboard cleaner is the actual culprit in this case. If you spray a can of 'air' on your hand and it leaves a wet residue, you'll be in trouble cleaning a fine wood finish. The stuff your friend used to clean his keyboard was not compressed air but a solvent with a propellant under pressure. Unfortunately, you can't always trust the label at first glance.

I can't tell you how many times this has come up on a certain popular astronomy website when someone has mistaken electronics cleaner for the product used for optics. Some fine optics, especially light filters, can have delicate coatings that are easily destroyed by the wrong choice.

**sgarrity** · Nov-05-2009, 9:05pm

Glad you provided that bit of info Joe. I've thought of doing this myself in the past and am very glad I didn't!!

**yankees1** · Nov-05-2009, 9:17pm

Originally Posted by Dfyngravity

Like micro fiber cleaning cloths, they can damage the finish.....trust me I know from experience.

If micro-fiber cloths will damage finish, what should one use?

**Tim2723** · Nov-05-2009, 9:26pm

Meaning no disrespect, but this is the first I've ever heard of this. Micro-fiber cloths are sold and used widely for cleaning instruments, and many big name companies put their logo on them. What actually happened?

**Chris Willingham** · Nov-05-2009, 9:26pm

my little brother worked for best buy geek squad in college. Their little trick they pulled on each other was spraying keyboard cleaner closely against someone else's scalp. What happens? The hair falls out in a small spot. I learned this when my brother had a nice little bald spot, several times. That's some powerful stuff. I have a varnish finish and worry about using anything more than a terry cloth.

**Tim2723** · Nov-05-2009, 9:38pm

That's why you want to test it by spraying your hand, not your head!

**45ACP-GDLF5** · Nov-05-2009, 9:50pm

Originally Posted by yankees1

If micro-fiber cloths will damage finish, what should one use?

Just a soft instrument cloth. Micro-fiber cloths actually leave hairline scratches on your instrument.

Instrument cloths are easily available in most all music stores. I get mine from Musicians Friend.com

Dust-Off and the like, contain liquid nitrogen. Using it on instruments is foolish.

**Mandoviol** · Nov-05-2009, 9:55pm

I actually use a pseudo chamois on my mandolin. It seems to do a decent job, though polishing cloths work well, too.

Glad I haven't tried using aerosol solvents on my mando!

**JEStanek** · Nov-05-2009, 9:58pm

I believe it was the cold that killed the finish more than anything else. Those cans of compressed air really cool things off fast. Your Chemistry will remind you that PV = nRT (the ideal gas law) which relates pressure, volume and temperature. As high pressure gas escapes to a larger volume the temperature drops (cracking finish and killing hair follicles).

Jamie

**Eddie Sheehy** · Nov-05-2009, 10:07pm

Er, what did you spray on your hair Jamie?

**Tim2723** · Nov-05-2009, 10:08pm

I believe you'll find that the temperature gradient is only 40 to 50 degrees (F). Enough to affect varnish maybe, but not enough to kill living tissue.

**mandroid** · Nov-05-2009, 10:15pm

to blow off dust is a secondary function of my pie hole.

**Big Joe** · Nov-05-2009, 10:31pm

I have used micro fibre cloths for years on instruments with no damage. They clean more effectively and faster than regular terry or other soft rags. The only way they would damage an instrument is if there is something on the cloth. One does need to be careful to use a clean cloth with nothing on it. If it has something caught in its fibres it could scratch. I know some who use them when they clean their guns. It would not be a good idea to wipe your gun with it and then use it on your mandolin. The cleaning solution for your gun could harm the finish. However, a good clean micro fibre would be my first choice for cleaning an instrument. I've cleaned a few thousand instrument with them and never had a problem.

**Tim2723** · Nov-05-2009, 10:36pm

And having thought more about the other subject, the temperature drop might be sufficient to shock a hair into falling out, although the follicle wouldn't be killed (the hair grows back), so Jamie might be right to an extent. Still, lots of people have stepped out onto their porch on a sub-zero winter's day without going bald as a billiard ball, so I'm not sure.

**Ronnie L** · Nov-06-2009, 1:47am

Cottton cloths , cut from an old T shirt (I use my daughters old cotton vests.) and a little tepid water. sometimes with a touch of Isopropanol in the water for stuborn grease ect Never use anything from an aerosol can. the low temperature or the gas propelent can damage finishes. If you want, only use cleaners from a pump action bottle like Dunlop formula 65. I use a dry cotton cloth on my strings. I have a micro fibre cloth which is ok, but I dont like the feel of it on my hands!

**danb** · Nov-06-2009, 4:26am

Originally Posted by Tim2723

I believe you'll find that the temperature gradient is only 40 to 50 degrees (F). Enough to affect varnish maybe, but not enough to kill living tissue.

Actually I learned the hard way that's not true! An office gag we had was to super-cool a plant/flower/leaf and flick with the finger and it woudl shatter after being frozen. Holding the can upside down and doing a little "poof" surprise on my leg by a cube neighbor earned me a little patch of frotsbite that turned grey and required minor medical attention!

**Mandoist** · Nov-06-2009, 5:29am

Originally Posted by Ronnie L

Cottton cloths , cut from an old T shirt (I use my daughters old cotton vests.) and a little tepid water.

In the last 30+ years, I never go anywhere without my old-fashioned cotton baby diaper. Never leave home without it.

No water, DEFINITELY NEVER a spray or liquid of any commercial "polish" or cleaner. 99.999% of so-called cleaners/polishes leave build-up. Even the most heralded (and expensive) vintage violin finish products I thought were safe left built-up over time.

It was never more apparent than when David Harvey (Gibson Showcase luthier) cleaned my old Loar with his own magic elixer. I was shocked to see the layers of c r a p those products left behind...and I only 'cleaned' that mando 2x per year, for 23 years.) That invention of David's is more of a cleaner than a polish -- although it does leave a natural sheen when used properly. More of a natural 'shine' than a can-o-polish shine.

Nothing but "David Harvey's Jubilee Polish/Cleaner" will ever touch my vintage finishes from now on.

**kalenh** · Nov-06-2009, 5:34am

Originally Posted by danb

Actually I learned the hard way that's not true! An office gag we had was to super-cool a plant/flower/leaf and flick with the finger and it woudl shatter after being frozen. Holding the can upside down and doing a little "poof" surprise on my leg by a cube neighbor earned me a little patch of frotsbite that turned grey and required minor medical attention!

Yup. That is the secret sauce to this recipe.

Now lets hope my Co-Workers don't discover this little trick.

Back to the topic: What "cleaning agents" would be recommended? If any?

**Mandoist** · Nov-06-2009, 5:41am

Originally Posted by kalenh

What "cleaning agents" would be recommended? If any?

David Harvey's Jubilee Polish/Cleaner

See testimony above....

**Dfyngravity** · Nov-06-2009, 6:00am

Originally Posted by Tim2723

Meaning no disrespect, but this is the first I've ever heard of this. Micro-fiber cloths are sold and used widely for cleaning instruments, and many big name companies put their logo on them. What actually happened?

The cork on my armrest started to pull away and I didn't have time to fix it and I wanted to use the armrest for band practice. So I laid the cloth over the side of the mandolin and put the armrest on just in case there was any exposed metal edges. I didn't tighten it very much but enough for it to not slide. I went to practice and forgot to take it off and didn't pick my mandolin up for a few days. I then realized what I had did so I went to take it off and the finish where the binding is turned slightly black because the cloth was black. I truly didn't think this through before doing this, so this is a warning to anyone who might get the idea.