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Thread: Flattop vs. archtop

  1. #26
    Registered User Narayan Kersak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    It wasn't too much effort. I was curious to see the difference too on the recording as I know often what I hear when playing isn't what others hear in front. This will be fun.
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    aka aldimandola Michael Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    Thanks for the soundfiles, Narayan. Iīd say the Flattop is in the middle and the Gibson would be the third one.

    As a fresh baked flattop owner I have to say that I always preferred and played archtops, until I got this flattop that I own now. This mando sounds as good or better than any archtop Iīve played (quality-wise), but in itīs own way, of course. In my opinion, when you apply archtop criterions to a flattop and vice versa this doesnīt make much sense without considering a context, except you (or the builder) see flattops only as a cheaper alternative to archtops.
    Maybe it makes a difference that the builder of my flattop doesnīt make archtops, but puts all his effort into this one kind of mandolin. Plus he has a foible for brazilian music as well as irish music, like me. I like archtops (both, oval and f-holes) as much as the flattop for irish tunes. They are different enough for me, so they can coexist. For brazilian music I feel that the flattop works much better than archtops (I know Mike Marshall sounds great, but thatīs another story for me). You feel that the music and the instrument simply fit together, and the nicest archtop couldnīt do better in this case.
    Which mando sounds more "refined" (what ever this term might mean) is hard to say, because it also depends on the constellation Iīm playing in, in my experience. But my flattop surely doesnīt sound harsh or brash, au contraire.

    If Iīm not mistaken, itīs not true that most professional players use archtops. In Brazil not one pro player that I know of plays a archtop. And this is not because they couldnīt afford archtops. There are more mandolin cultures, like Portuguese or Israeli players, where archtops are not preferred.
    Do archtops look better? I think it depends on the point of view, canīt be said generally. I like both for their esthetics.

  3. #28
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    I haven't played or heard enough back to back comparisons to generalize beyond my own experince. But none of the criticisms of flattops seem to apply to the Weber Aspen II.

    It doesn't sound like my archtop, sure, but it sounds clear and focused and what some call "bell like", and not at all tinny or brassy or brash, which I agree, is what I would describe as the tone when any mandoln is picked too close to the bridge.

    The Aspen shines especially (IMO) when playing unison melody lines with the fiddle. Plays better with others I guess.

    As to whether archtops are better looking, I guess that is so totally subjective as to be a non-starter. If we are having difficulty agreeing on the sound quality, we ain' never gonna agree on the looks.

    I am fortunate enough to have both arch tops and flattops in my stable, so I don't have any "versus" issue. There is music that makes each indispensible, as well as music for which each of them is not as well suited.
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  4. #29
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    I quite like My Hodson D'jangolin, it's a flat top soundboard .
    back and sides, 2 layers of veneer, mahogany inside , rosewood outside.
    writing about music
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  5. #30
    Mandolin Botherer Shelagh Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    I don't see it as a "versus". Each has their characteristic sound and look and I use mine according to what I want to play and what tone I'm looking for and whether I'm playing alone or with others... archtop (f-holes) mainly for old time and flat-top more often for "celtic" or classical although I'll often swap over even so.

  6. #31
    Registered User Narayan Kersak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    In those recordings, the flat top flattop was number 2. Eastman was 1, mowry 2, gibson 3.
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  7. #32
    18 Wheels--8 Strings gregjones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    I thought it might be a trick and you just changed picks!!!.
    Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.

  8. #33
    Registered User Narayan Kersak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    Nope. That would be funny though. I actually thought about doing that, I know a lot of folks said that flattops sound like an arch top picked up by the bridge, but I actually found that my flat top had that tight arch top sound at the bridge this evening. I also found that if I very gently palm muted the strings when I played I got the "plunky" sound of an arch top, rather than the richer ringing sound without the mute. As I found from the other thread on these comparisons, only a very few people can actually tell the difference anyway.
    Asheville Celtic Mandolin Blog and Tablature Resource.
    www.AshevilleMandolin.com
    The Asheville Celtic Mandolin Collection: Standard Notation, Tablature and Chords for the Celtic Mandolin https://a.co/d/2KaJwBq "] - Tablature, Standard Notation & Chords to 50 Celtic/Irish Tunes.
    Hurdy Gurdy Music - https://youtube.com/@TheHurdyGurdyWi...nCX2BHJY7jCVM4
    The Mud Larks - Hurdy Gurdy and Nyckelharpa - https://the-mudlarks.com/

  9. #34
    the little guy DerTiefster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    I thought I'd responded to your sound clip challenge earlier on this thread, but maybe it was something on another thread. Oh, well. Anyway, I -do- believe that a Flatiron pancake is clearly different from the carved top instruments I have. I've plucked a Flatiron pancake mandolin only at a picking party, but I have such a mandola and it sounds distinctly different from the Breedlove KO and the old Regal-ish ff-hole mandolin my Dad used to own.

    When I get some primitive (as opposed to imaginary) recording equipment set up, I'll follow this up, maybe here and maybe on another thread. Just don't hold your breath waiting for me. But I still think it would be interesting to more than just me.
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  10. #35
    ************** Caleb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    Excellent discussion, though I find it odd that “Celtic music” always tends to be associated with flattop mandolins. Four years ago when I discovered the mandolin I read this over and over here. I wanted to learn to play older music (Irish, old-time, maybe classical, if I could ever get the chops for it), so I started looking at the flattops. But then I started getting out and around other players. I went to an Irish music festival and only spotted only one flattop, and it was a bouzouki. And I’ve been to an Irish music retreat and didn’t see anyone playing a flattop, except for a lady with an octave mandolin. So, in my experience, the “flattop for Celtic” idea is a generalization that doesn’t necessarily hold up.

    I’ll also add that, again, in my experience, these types of ideas don’t tend to be nearly as important in other parts of the world as they are in the United States. It seems like in many parts of the world people just make music with what they have and that’s the end of the matter. People here in the U.S. tend to want a Gibson mandolin or a Martin guitar and they won’t be happy until they get it. Again, a generalization, but you get my drift. I think this attitude is mostly due to one part nostalgia and one larger part marketing on the part of U.S. instrument makers. That’s business, and that’s the way it goes, but it can actually hinder creativity as people wait on the perfect instrument they’ll get “one of these days” before getting serious about making music.

    I remember attending a class at the Irish music retreat I referenced above. Matt Cranitch, who is a master Irish fiddler, was giving the class. The FIRST thing he did was hold up his fiddle and make the following statement that I’ll never forget: “This is an inanimate object.” An obvious statement, sure, but he was trying to make a point and break the mystique that so many of us have associated with certain kinds of instruments. He was trying to make it all about the music and less about the instrument, and certainly less about the name brand on the instrument. That was a great class.
    ...

  11. #36
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    Here you go, mano a mano. The video and the audio are not in sync, so just listen.

    http://www.mikemarshall.net/video/H+M-song1.mov
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
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  12. #37
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flattop vs. archtop

    Quote Originally Posted by Narayan Kersak View Post
    Here are recordings of two arch tops and one flat top.
    PS- I'll post the order in which the mandos were played on Friday...until then!
    Boy oh boy those are really hard to tell apart!

    #1 sounds the harshest to me, #2 has the greastest warmth to the sound, so I'll go with #2 as the flat top. And hopefully #1 isn't the Gibson

    One thing I would say - changing strings would probably make more of a difference here than changing instruments - we may just be hearing differences in string age and/or brand. Oh and I think my Eastman 504 sounds miles better than #1

    John.

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