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Thread: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

  1. #1

    Default Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    OK, my own curiosity got the best of me...
    Anyone have one of these?


    If you do would you be willing to make a tracing of the outline and take a few measurements?

  2. #2
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    There are a couple of Knutsens hanging on the wall at Dusty Strings in Seattle; do you know anyone there?
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    ISO TEKNO delsbrother's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Contact Gregg Miner at Harpguitars.net or Robert Hartman at Larsons' Creations for the Larsons. Gregg is a member here, though I don't know if he checks in very often. Right now he's gearing up for the next Harp Guitar Gathering, which Robert will probably attend as well.

    As far as the Knutsens go, I have one, but you might as well just make up your own shapes; each one is unique! The more I study his work, the more I think a lot of his instruments were sized according to the wood he had at hand, vs. to some standard of model size. I'm attempting to build these myself, and that's one of the liberating things about Knutsen design... Talk about freeform, LOL.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Well, I don't know anyone at Dusty Strings, but I do have the Hartman book, and lots of pix from Miner's site. If all else fails, I'll just scale up a photo. I have some very rough measurements.
    Thanks folks!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Intermountain Guitar and Banjo in Salt Lake City has had one listed on their site for quite some time:

    http://www.guitarandbanjo.com/details/1670.html

    Perhaps they can help you out, Hans.

  6. #6
    ISO TEKNO delsbrother's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    What measurements were you looking for?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Thanks for the tips folks! I finally did what I usually do...take advantage of the digital age. Here's the full size from a small photo of a Dyer I found. I have a side view and a tailblock measurement so I'm all set.

    Now all I need to do is find some spare time!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Good luck. Keep us informed of the progress. Looks like a very interesting project.

  9. #9
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    I've done some set up work on a customer's Knutsen harp guitar, and I've taken some photos of it, but I don't think I have any measurements. It's huge, old (pre-Dyer/Larson I believe), full of repairs, but sounds surprisingly good. It has one of the most interesting neck repairs that I've ever seen, I'd never expect it to work well but there it is and the thing is very playable.
    Sorry for the slight thread hijack, it's obviously not a mandolin, but I find those oldies interesting too.
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  10. #10
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    The neck:
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    That's a fine looking guitar John! Lends new meaning to dovetail neck joint...
    Looks like the bridge could walk away though!

  12. #12
    ISO TEKNO delsbrother's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Wow, that's an odd duck even for Knutsen! It looks positively massive! What are the sides/back made of?

    I hope you will consent to sharing your pictures with the Archives. Have you already been in contact with Gregg Miner? If not I'm sure he'll try to reach you soon.

    Looking forward to seeing your take on the Dyer, Hans.. While you're at it, why not go for the whole family?

  13. #13
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Back and sides are curly maple.
    It wold be the owner's choice about sharing photos and measurement with the archive, I like to respect customer's privacy whether it's important to them or not and leave such decisions to them. Also, I don't live particularly near the owner of this instrument so I don't have easy access to it, just the few snapshots I grabbed (with permission) for my own use.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by delsbrother View Post
    Looking forward to seeing your take on the Dyer, Hans.. While you're at it, why not go for the whole family?
    Two reasons...
    1) My wife doesn't even want me to build this one, which leads to #2...
    2) There's no $$ in them. Couldn't you just see Ricky playing one?

  15. #15
    ISO TEKNO delsbrother's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    LOL Hans. IMO there would be some money in a truly Larson-inspired design, as they are superclean and fantastic looking. You might get a bite from a collector. The only problem is the people who know it and appreciate it for what it is probably already have a real one. The guitar you could definitely sell.

    My "problem" is I'm more a fan of the Knutsen style, in all it's funky glory. The only way I could sell one of those is to price them under $1K, which for the work is pretty unsustainable. Still fun to dream, though.

    John, that's a great shot of the back. Very few of the known Knutsens were made in Maple. My harp mandolin is one of them - interestingly, aside from the finish mine could be the sister to this guitar. The inlay and figure is remarkably similar. Hadn't seen a blonde one before.. Do you think it could've been refinished?

    If I were to guess, I'd say the repairman dovetailed the original Knutsen headstock into a new neck - obviously Knutsen's bolt and bracket joint must've failed at some point. The heel (with dowels?) looks new, as does the fingerboard. Do you think that was the original bridge?

    Re: the Archives, Gregg is very sensitive to owners' wishes, and if they request anonymity it is always granted. There are just so few of these things it seems a shame to hide them away. Thank you for posting the pictures here, anyway. Hopefully Gregg will see them and chime in.

  16. #16
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Thinking about that harp guitar I'm remembering more about it. I actually had some minor structural things to look into, poorly repaired cracks, lose braces, something like that I believe, so I looked the interior over as well as possible with mirrors and lights (after cleaning it out by shaking dry rice around inside), but I didn't take any pictures of the inside.
    The bridge could be original, but I have no good way to be sure because there is no reason to remove it to see if the glue joint looks original and/or there is a different shaped "scar" under it. Some of the little curly points have been broken off and replaced with newer pieces, but with a shape like that that's no surprise with an instrument or this age. The bridge is obviously hand carved with tool (gouge) marks deliberately left to show, and the edge of the rather thick ebony peghead overlay shows the same tool marks. I also remember some pictures that were in the (custom made) case showing the inside when it was taken apart for repairs. The owner has those prints.

    I can email the owner and tell him of the interest of the archive and leave it to him to contact Greg. The owner, by the way, is a world class professional musician, though not too well known these days because he works in the studio a lot, but he does travel and perform some. This guitar is not exactly "hidden away" but is instead played by an excellent musician.
    It's a fascinating instrument to study!
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  17. #17
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    The neck heel does not look new, it's hard to figure out why the neck is dovetailed together "in the middle". The heel has repaired cracks, dowels and plugs, and interestingly it looks like a draw pattern for a heel carving under the finish.
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  18. #18
    ISO TEKNO delsbrother's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Sorry, I'm mixing up my harp guitars with convertible hawaiians. I suppose the neck could be original (never say never when it comes to Knutsen).

    If the owner is famous, I'm going to guess Gregg might already know this instrument.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    My-T-fine Knutsen delsbro!
    Really don't know about the demand for Dyer/Larson harp mandolins, more likely harp guitars, but there is a definite demand for Larson/Maurer/Stahl/Prairie State etc 6 string guitars for fingerpickers!

  20. #20
    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Hans, I own a Knutsen. It's interesting, but not a world-class mandolin, so I'm not sure it's worth copying to the nth detail. I bet you could do one similar that'd be a better instrument.

    Or perhaps something like this:

    .
    ph

    º º º º º º º º º º º º º º º
    Paul Hostetter, luthier
    Santa Cruz, California
    www.lutherie.net

  21. #21
    ISO TEKNO delsbrother's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dyer/Larson/Knutsen anyone?

    Heck, you can get one just like that one from Musikalia

    Actually I'm not sure any harp mando is really "world class" - Knutsens are infamous for their construction crudeness (well, at least the ones he made himself are); even the Dyers are not always great sounding.

    My Knutsen needed considerable repair to be playable. I also didn't realize at first how the harp arm was going to affect playing. First of all, you have to look past it, which takes some getting used to. Then there's the size/length of the neck itself. With all the associated bracketry in there there isn't a whole lot of space..

    Modern makers can surely improve upon these designs, so I'd love to see what Hans does. But undoubtedly, some wacky ideas (like harp mandolins) never caught on for a reason...

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