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Thread: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

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    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Question The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    OK guys, throw down your perspective on The Loar 700 vs. Kentucky 1000.

    Both sport about the same pedigree and features. Both seem like a fair bet for the money for a nice instrument near $1000.

    I currently have a deposit down for The Loar 700 . . . but am wondering if I am nuts to be one of the first folks to trot down this path sight-unseen.

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    The Forrest Gump of Mando Rob Powell's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenS View Post
    OK guys, throw down your perspective on The Loar 700 vs. Kentucky 1000.

    Both sport about the same pedigree and features. Both seem like a fair bet for the money for a nice instrument near $1000.

    I currently have a deposit down for The Loar 700 . . . but am wondering if I am nuts to be one of the first folks to trot down this path sight-unseen.
    I don't have any experience with the Kentucky but I can tell you that the LM-700 is a fine instrument indeed. I have yet to hear anyone who has played one mention it was anything less than stellar.

    Of course, I can say the same thing about the Kentucky! Personally, I'd love to have a Blackface Kentucky but I wouldn't trade my LM-700 for one
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    mandolinist, Mixt Company D C Blood's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    I played a "The Loar" 700 at Big Joe's today...mighty fine, mighty fine...
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    I am a KM1000 proponent, but with all the comments, I think a guy would be crazy not to try and get their hands on one of these 700s and try it out! I know I want to!
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Ok Steven, if you've been following the latest post, you see that Rob and I have an active post on my recent purchase of the LM-700 from Big Joe's. Since I now own an LM-700 (just a few days, but I'm playing the hound out of it) and I have played a good KM-1000 at Gruhn's (couple of years ago), I'll give you my perspective on those two mandolins.

    For starters, most of the KM-1000's are north of $1500. Gruhn just listed that latest one for $1700. The prices I'm seeing posted on the LM-700 place it at about $1050-$1100.

    Build quality. The Km-1000's are beautifully built. The craftsmanship is really, really good. When I purchased the KM-700, I was prepared for the craftsmanship on it to be less than the KM-1000...its not! My LM-700 is just plain stunning and the detail is excellent...double bound on the top and sides (you don't see that much). Excellent job on the neck binding and headstock binding. Beautiful abalone and Pearl work in the headstock. The sunburst is just fabulous...beautifully done...I'm talking Gibson level sunburst here. The only flaws I can see on mine is a little roughness in the finish on the inside of the loop in the ear of the headstock...have you inspected some of the biggest name's finish inside the loop of the headstock ear or under the floating portion of the extended fretboard?

    Anyway let's get to sound. When I played the KM-1000 it was a good sounding mandolin, but my thoughts at that time was that it was a good sounding mandolin for $1500...and I didn't buy it. It was bright with what I would call average Asian strength on the G and D strings.

    Now the LM-700 has a sound that you can compare with mandolins that cost $3K to $5K...I know because I have two examples of excellent mandolins in that price range. The LM-700 isn't as deep or growly as my Red Spruce Weber Yellowstone or my Silverangel, but I haven't played but one other mandolin in my life that had more G and D punch than these two (a Gibson MM). The LM-700 is brand new and I can tell you that it is better than the Gibson F5g I previously owned at this stage in its break in period. It s a little bit tinny (new word for bright sounding tone) than my Weber...with more sustain e.g., less decay, but not in a bad way. Chop chords are lethal...not as deep, but the whole set of strings does get into the action! It cuts in a Jam!

    I made a comment on another post about someone not liking the name The Loar..and I said just put some painter's tape over the word Loar and then go to a jam and see what people say. I'm going to do this with mine just for kicks when I got the Casey Jones Jam this Thursday...cause if they can't see the word "Loar" they're going to have a hard time figuring out if the word Gibson isn't under that painter's tape (I'll have to cover the tailpiece too...Its beautifully engraved with "The Loar."

    Its going to be interesting to see how this LM-700 opens up as it gets played. Like many other folks that have posted on the Cafe, I believe that you can get a pretty good idea of how good a mando is going to be even when its new, e.g., if it isn't really good when its new, it probably doesn't have the potential to become really great! I do know from my Gibson F5G that some mandolins do require a lenghtly break-in period...that one did, but when I traded it away for the Weber, it was a great sounding mandolin.

    Ok Steven...my fingers are hurting...last point....I can list a bunch of locations where you can get a KM-1000, right now today! I think if you look around, you'll find that it might be difficult to even locate an LM-700...some advertise but don't have them in stock. have you studied the concepts associated with Supply and Demand?

    So I don't get a bunch of KM-1000 owners mad at me, I love KM-1000's. I think they are great mandolins! I just had to see how a mandolin with no tone bars will perform, I'm an engineer after all
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    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Tim,
    Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response. I currently have a "blemished 2nd" LM-600 which has a few finish flaws but is just outstanding to play. Even in my novice hands there are moments when I just know this is a really well made instrument that can sing and chop with classic style. The more I read the more curious I am to try out the LM-700.
    Steve

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    Okay, I'm with you fellas tburcham's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenS View Post
    Tim,
    Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response. I currently have a "blemished 2nd" LM-600 which has a few finish flaws but is just outstanding to play. Even in my novice hands there are moments when I just know this is a really well made instrument that can sing and chop with classic style. The more I read the more curious I am to try out the LM-700.
    Steve
    Every instrument is blemished...even the best from the independent builders have slight flaws. Instruments with slight cosmetic blemishes probably represent the best value available at a retail level...just think of it as distressed without having to pay extra for the scratches and wear marks!

    I haven't played the LM-600, but don't see any reason why they wouldn't be just as good as the 700's...after all...tone bars are the standard for virtually every mandolin and that means they work!
    Tim Burcham
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    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Tim,
    I am also really curious about the "no tone bar" thing on the LM-700. Wonder if it doesn't give an "older feel" to the new instruments . . . but may end up allowing the top to be too soft over time.
    Steve

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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    First let me say that I have played a few KM1000's that were excellent. I played one last year at IBMA that belongs to a friend who also owns a real Loar and it was a great mandolin. It was the best of those that I have played. The LM700 does have a bit bigger neck profile. The KM1000 was pretty small for me. I would personally love one about half way between the two.

    The LM700 should have no problem with top sinkage as time goes by. A properly carved and arched top will have plenty of structural support to handle the stresses it will see. The arching is where the real strength is, not really in the tone bars. The tone bars, as in the LM600 will give a more focused mid range. The LM700 seems to have a bit more eveness across the tonal spectrum with a bit more bottom end and a bit more treble. It certainly resonates very well and you can feel it through the back of the mandolin as it vibrates against your chest...unless you put a tone guard on .

    Any of the three mandolins will be good mandolins. The KM1000 is more expensive than the other two but personally I think the LM700 has a wider tonal range than the KM1000. Some may like the more focused tone, and that if fine. Either are good mandolins, well built, and a good value. Each one has to determine which tone and feel they personally like best. If you get opportunity to play each it will help give a better idea. All in all, there are a lot better mandolins available for a reasonable amount of money that there was when I first began playing. Sometimes it's not just the having that is the real joy....but the obtaining .
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    Okay, I'm with you fellas tburcham's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Here are a couple of sound files on the LM-700 and a Weber Yellowstone (Red Spruce). Forgive my terrible picking ability and see if you can pick out which one is which between Clip#1 and Clip #2...have fun! Recorded in my dinning room (hardwood floors and 14 feet ceiling height...i.e., lots of natural reverb)

    Clip #1

    and

    Clip #2
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    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    First clip sounds like the newer mandolin to me.
    Last edited by Steve Sorensen; Oct-14-2009 at 9:46pm.

  12. #12
    The Forrest Gump of Mando Rob Powell's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    I'm having a hard time figuring it out but I think it's remarkable how similar they sound considering the age and price difference....and they both sound pretty darn good to me

    Since we have to guess, I'll agree with Steven that the first clip is the LM-700 only because the second clip sounds more opened up.

    Geez Louise though, whichever one it is, doesn't the LM-700 sound great?
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    Okay, I'm with you fellas tburcham's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Rob and StevenS,

    The big question is: can your hear a $3,200 difference????
    Tim Burcham
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    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    To be honest, I really like the tone of the first sample track and was wondering if the mic placement was not as good for the second sample. This is so subjective . . . but I feel that my LM-600 sounds a lot like the first sample (except for my lame fingers). I'm a recovering banjo beater, so I think I tend to like the more "sparkly" sound.
    Steve

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    Okay, I'm with you fellas tburcham's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenS View Post
    To be honest, I really like the tone of the first sample track and was wondering if the mic placement was not as good for the second sample. This is so subjective . . . but I feel that my LM-600 sounds a lot like the first sample (except for my lame fingers). I'm a recovering banjo beater, so I think I tend to like the more "sparkly" sound.
    Steve
    Steve, The mic placement and pick were the same for both samples...to the extent I could replicate them. I would expect your LM-600 to sound very similar to the 700. The differences between those two would be very subtle and would require you playing them side by side to really get a read on the different nuances in tone, projection, etc. I will tell you that the 700 has a percussiveness when you increase your attack..which I like...My Silverangel also shares this trait and the Weber to a lesser extent.
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    The Forrest Gump of Mando Rob Powell's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Quote Originally Posted by tburcham View Post
    Rob and StevenS,

    The big question is: can your hear a $3,200 difference????
    No, I can't. I think the point is well shown that LM-700 can hang with much more expensive mandolins.
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    Registered User Stephen Lind's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    To my tired old ears, the first clip sounds like a toy compared to the second one
    having said that, I don't really care for the Webers I've heard and played

    which is which?

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    Okay, I'm with you fellas tburcham's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Clip #1 is the LM-700
    Clip #2 is the Yellowstone
    Tim Burcham
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  19. #19

    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    Does anyone have any comments or updates on these comparisons? Last comment was back in 2009

  20. #20

    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    There have been some minor changes to both. The KM-1000 has a slightly darker sunburst and overall is about the same quality. Maybe slightly better workmanship now.


    The LM-700 has had the neck slimmed down and the workmanship is a bit more refined.

    Other than that, nothing has changed.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    I've had both at the same time, til recently. Both very good mandolins for their price range and you can't really go wrong with either. Of course every mandolin is an individual, so grain of salt here. Here's my thoughts:

    The Loar 700:
    It feels a bit heavier with a much thicker finish. Feels almost indestructible. The finish can be very rough in spots (under the scroll and extension) so beware if that bothers you. Flat fingerboard. It has larger frets than the standard KM-1000 which I liked out of the box. The neck was a slightly smaller very rounded V. The sound was perhaps a mellower-traditional, and I liked that too. A nice mandolin for the price. I picked it over the Eastmans at a local store a few years ago.

    Kentucky KM 1000 Blacktop:
    It feels noticeably lighter and more delicately finished. The finishing was less rough and very good. Just a couple minor spots that weren't perfect. The neck is a larger C-shape. The sound was a little more in-your-face traditional bluegrass. Less mellow. (it does have an Adi-top) Flat fingerboard also. The frets are small on the standard model (didn't like that as much). Overall also very nice. I got it online from Robert Fear.

    Both:
    I eventually had the fingerboard extensions scooped on each model. That helped the playability a lot for both. I eventually had the KM-1000B totally refretted with large frets. I liked that quite a lot. Upgraded both bridges to Cumberland Acoustics. That made a small improvement in both. Eventually MAS set in with Weber/Gibson, and one had to move on, so I sold The Loar 700.

    Overall if I had t pick one out the box, I'd get The Loar 700 from Robert Fear and have him scoop the extension and consider a CA bridge for it too maybe. Then I'd keep it as the "take out" mando, if I upgraded significantly after that. I do like the KM-1000B with the big fret refret job now, perhaps a little better, but that definitely added to the cost overall. Without the refret, I would have let it go I think. A used KM 1050 would seem to bridge the gap with big frets and the scoop already done also.

    Thanks Robert for those mods on these mandolins! Came out great! Just my 2-cents. Of course if you can play one of each your hands and ears might make the choice for you. I think The Loar 700 is under-appreciated.

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  23. #22
    Mando-Afflicted lflngpicker's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar 700 vs. The Kentucky 1000

    I say the KM-1000, hands down. A great Gibson-like traditional F style with a thin nitro finish that lets the tone breath. The Loar LM-700 is a close second.
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