Radius by L.R. Baggs

**hawkins.bp** · Oct-13-2009, 2:58pm

How does this pickup measure up to the other transducers? I currently have a +10 year old fishman bridge pickup and am considering the Radius. It's certainly cheaper than the Schertler Dyn-M. Would it be an upgrade from a "bridge pickup" setup regardless of the age of my pickup?

Thanks

**mandroid** · Oct-13-2009, 4:16pm

Apples and Oranges comparison.

I like my Schertler because It is Treated by the rest of the gear like another Dynamic Microphone.

{Thanks to Politics, the U$Dollar is falling, so Mine cost $100 less , not that many years ago.}

No Special Pre amp Required,

but with a Piezo Bridge You already have a preamp for that, right?

so the very High impedance characteristic the Baggs thing shares with Piezo types is easier to cope with.

the Baggs company has a combination DI and a preamp, the DI output is in the microphone impedance range , and they have a higher level 1/4" output too.

Dozens of times this topic, pickups in general, has come up before

checking into the archives is helpful .

**Roger Kunkel** · Oct-13-2009, 5:33pm

IMHO...
I'm currently "upgrading" from a Radius to a Dyn-M. For me the Schertler is worth the price, although it was tough to accept the cost. I think the tone of the Radius is quite good, but I just couldn't accept the thumpy, clacky, kind of handling noise that contact piezos create. It can be EQ'd out to some extent, but the Dyn-M has the microphone like dynamics that I think all piezo pickups fail to achieve.

**James P** · Oct-14-2009, 1:47am

I was running a Radius/PADI on my Mowry. I am definitely not a fan of that pickup. OTOH, the K&K Twin in my Moon mando sounds fantastic.

**lenf12** · Oct-14-2009, 11:51am

Originally Posted by James P

OTOH, the K&K Twin in my Moon mando sounds fantastic.

I too am using a K & K Twin Mandolin p/u on my F-12 with an Art tube pre-amp and it sounds great. There's still some contact noise if I tap the soundboard or move the strap around a lot but the sound quality is quite good enough that I don't mind the extraneous noise. The price was "right" too. ymmv

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

**madsknude** · May-10-2010, 5:47am

Hi guys!

Originally Posted by Roger Kunkel

I think the tone of the Radius is quite good, but I just couldn't accept the thumpy, clacky, kind of handling noise that contact piezos create.

Right on!
I have them both on trial (my guitarshop-man is kind) and I completely agree with you! At first listen, the radius sound very nice (after applying loads of EQ, ofcourse), open and "airy", but for me the DYN wins in the long run.
I'll try to sum up why that is:
1) The high output (it's line level !!!)
2) No handling noise or self-noise
3) Super easy installation, and it dosn't look too ugly (unlike the carpenterjack of the radius)
4) tonal range / response seem well balanced (somewhat liniar, with some lowcut), except the boosted midrange.

The last point is important to me, as I plan to use the pick up in combination with a mic on a stand.

If I was forced to only use one pick up, and nothing else, I'd actually prefer the Baggs, soundwise.

Please comment if you disagree. I'm sure this has all been said before, but I searched the forum the best I could.

BTW: I'm doing a small review on the baggs for my guitardealers website, nothing fancy, and if anybody think that the Baggs is the best (or worst) in the world, please comment!

**Tim2723** · May-10-2010, 7:05am

I agree with 'Droid, apples and oranges. I have both and prefer the Schertler for simplicity (a big deal for me) but the Baggs has a broader range of capabilities, at least as I use them. YMMV, big time.

**Eliot Greenspan** · May-10-2010, 9:00am

I switched from Radius to Schertler. Couldn't be happier. Much more natural tone, much less pick and palm noise (virtually none). Wish I had an internal install, as I don't find the putty routine and thin cable bunched and stuffed into pocket to be convenient...

If I ever get presentable on the fiddle, may try the Radius there....

**pickinpete** · May-10-2010, 10:11am

Methinks that sometimes the piezo sounds different on different mandolins, I think darker sounding mandolins do better with piezo than brighter sounding mandos do. I would need access to alot of combinations to write that in stone, but around bluegrass purist land where I live, a pickup at all on yer mando makes you a "rocker"

**Tim2723** · May-10-2010, 10:36am

I think you're right, Pete. So much depends on the instrument involved. There are too many variables. A piezo will sound fine on one mandolin, terrible on another. If it sounds right, play it.

**madsknude** · May-10-2010, 11:18am

Originally Posted by pickinpete

..but around bluegrass purist land where I live, a pickup at all on yer mando makes you a "rocker"

Haha, good one.
Are you talking about the Radius, when you say "piezo" ?
On the package of the one I have, it reads: "magnetically damped accelerometer"
Isn't piezo some artificial crystals that conduct current, whereas this sounds more like something that moves - like a membrane ?
I'm not trying to say you're wrong, it's just that I had a fishman once, and that sounded very different from this. Well piezo is a bad word in my book due to several guitar pick ups that sounded dull and rubber-like..

**pickinpete** · May-12-2010, 3:55pm

I was really refering to any contact pickup, I had a mcIntyre feather internal on my MK that sounded HORRIBLE, I like the radius on my current mandolin but as I said, I cant really get a fair comparison.

**Mike Bunting** · May-12-2010, 4:33pm

Originally Posted by madsknude

Haha, good one.

Isn't piezo some artificial crystals that conduct current, whereas this sounds more like something that moves - like a membrane ?

Piezoelectricity is the ability of some materials (notably crystals, certain ceramics, and biological matter such as bone, DNA and various proteins) to generate an electric field or electric potential in response to applied mechanical stress. The vibration of the instrument is the "applied mechanical stress" that therefore creates the electrical signal that can be converted back to sound. Piezo crystals are not artificial.

**wayfaringstranger** · May-12-2010, 10:26pm

Originally Posted by Roger Kunkel

IMHO...
I'm currently "upgrading" from a Radius to a Dyn-M. For me the Schertler is worth the price, although it was tough to accept the cost. I think the tone of the Radius is quite good, but I just couldn't accept the thumpy, clacky, kind of handling noise that contact piezos create.

Interesting. I've used both, and I don't really hear the handling noise issue with the Radius. Both pickups have handling noise (they're both microphones, so you can't really avoid it), but neither one strikes me as worse. I ended up buying the Radius. Doesn't need much EQ, even: I cut a couple of dB around 250-300 HZ and boost the high mids and presence a bit and think it sounds quite natural after playing around with the placement some. Both pickups have good and bad points:

Radius pros: Cheap, sounds quite good.
Radius cons: Carpenter jack is annoying, really does better with a preamp and EQ.

Schertler pros: Sounds great, doesn't need a preamp.
Schertler cons: Expensive, long+thin XLR cord is annoying.

Here's the same mando and same preamp with both pickups. Can't promise that all other things (EQ, etc.) in the sound system are equal, but maybe it'll give you an idea:

Schertler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Mf60-MzWo
Baggs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrnoD...eature=channel

I like that both are easily removable and mount on the outside of the instrument. I'm going to break out my soldering iron one of these days and solder the Radius' output to a 3.5mm jack or a pigtail that I can attach to my strap so that I can ditch the carpenter jack.

john

**Trey Young** · May-13-2010, 3:09am

Originally Posted by wayfaringstranger

... I ended up buying the Radius. Doesn't need much EQ, even: I cut a couple of dB around 250-300 HZ and boost the high mids and presence a bit and think it sounds quite natural after playing around with the placement some....

My experience with the Baggs is almost identical to John's. I run it into a clean boost, then a MXR 10 band EQ, then into the Baggs Para DI and I'm pretty happy with it. I use it at a fairly noisy bar and have very little feedback issues now that I've gotten the eq'ing down. I also have mine mounted internally and the jack ran to the endpin, which helps a ton with the looks.

**madsknude** · May-13-2010, 6:17am

Originally Posted by wayfaringstranger

... I ended up buying the Radius. Doesn't need much EQ, even: I cut a couple of dB around 250-300 HZ and boost the high mids and presence a bit and think it sounds quite natural after playing around with the placement some. Both pickups have good and bad points:...

Thanks for the clips, and good points!
But you use a preamp right ? I can't get enough signal into the mixer without one (maybe if I used a jack-xlr converter plug I could)

**wayfaringstranger** · May-13-2010, 9:55am

Originally Posted by madsknude

But you use a preamp right

Yep. Baggs PADI with the Schertler and Baggs Venue DI with the Radius. (I'm using borrowed gear in the first clip, and the second clip is the stuff I ended up buying for myself). It's nice to compare the two, but I also suspect that the difference in sound between the two clips has more to do with the way I'd tweaked my EQ settings to shape the midrange than with the actual pickup. They're both pretty natural sounding.

Not much difference in the preamps: they're eessentially the same tone circuit, but the Venue adds a little more EQ control and a clean boost, which is really nice for us acoustic musicians who usually play through a mic and are used to being able to step up to the mic for a volume boost during a solo.

Originally Posted by madsknude

I can't get enough signal into the mixer without one (maybe if I used a jack-xlr converter plug I could)

Yeah, that's why I have a preamp :-) An XLR to 1/4" adapter shouldn't make a difference in output.

**madsknude** · May-14-2010, 5:28am

Originally Posted by wayfaringstranger

...Yeah, that's why I have a preamp :-) An XLR to 1/4" adapter shouldn't make a difference in output.

I forgot to mention that my Yamaha mixer does not have a mic/line switch to control, ehh, impedance (?), and so the XLR input has a gain headroom of 26dB more than the line input. It's just the mixers fault in my case. A good one has a "pad" switch, or even a impedance switch, or whatever

I had the baggs, but went on to using mic on a stand. Now I'm trying the venue. It's does the job, but if I was to use the radius, I would consider the "Headway EDB-1".

It seems to, feature wise, match the venue, and gives the extra channel on top, even though it does lack some obvious features, like "mix" (???)
Maybe someone here have tried it ?