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Thread: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    I've gone to a combination of water based stain for a grain heightening...stain and then sand back. I follow this with airbrushed metal acid dyes from what used to be US Cellulose directly on the wood followed by Waterlox to set the stains and to do a pre-seal before going on to other clear materials.

  2. #27
    Tony Bare
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    I tried alcohol based dies and had lots of trouble , especially on the spruce, with blotching. I just couldn't get it even. I use ( don't laugh ) Rite cloth dye now. I have a uke and a mandolin that are about 3 years old and have been played a lot and haven't noticed any change or fading. It is readily available locally and comes in about any color that you want and it is water soluable so you can mix it the way you want. I am sure that my trouble with the alcohol dies was something that I was doing wrong but I found that water is easier to work with for me. If I wet the wood first it doesn't blotch and dies more evenly. Time will tell if the colors last without fading but so far I like it. I am just a hobbiest so don't try any of my ideas without seeing for yourself on some scrap wood.
    Tony Bare

  3. #28
    Registered User Bill Snyder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    I don't mean to nitpick, but it is Rit dye not Rite.
    Bill Snyder

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    i've always hand applied alcohol based dyes and then sprayed nitro over...yes there is the blotching problem,but with me , i try to stay with the "hand made" look....my first build was a dark shade burst that was sprayed on and was not happy with the look...just covered up all the wood grain...i guess it's all goes to what kind of look you are trying for.....keith
    kterry

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    The hand rubbed VS sprayed look is definitely a matter of personal choice, but there's also a third option, and that's to do both. I like rubbing the amber and medium browns into the maple, but only the amber into the spruce top. The tobacco brown is sprayed. I stray from this from time to time to try spraying all of them, but keep returning to the hybrid 'burst.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    Mario, that's a lot of what I do now...really a combination of three techniques...rubbed in water based stains, sprayed MEK stains, and then sprayed pure MEK stains onto tacky sealer if I need to get more opaque at the edges of a 'burst.

  7. #32
    Tony Bare
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    You are absolutely correct. I had it right the first time and when I read it over before I posted, "Rit" just didn't look like a real word so I added an "e". I don't mind being corrected. I am sometimes reluctant to post my ideas when there are so many folks with so much knowledge and experience on the board. That is why I usually notify people of my hobbiest status and experience level when I post.
    Tony Bare

  8. #33
    Registered User Yonkle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    I have hand rubbed my sunburst finish on every mandolin I have ever made. I don't know any other way, seems like spraying would be difficult unless you are just spraying to blend one color to the next.
    I use 4 different colors of stain and straight alcohol and a bunch of rags, thats it. I really enjoy making a sunburst it's fun (until your done) then the dreaded "scraping of the binding" starts and all the fun goes away.
    Shalom,Yonkle (JD)

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    i am with you on this, Yonkie.....as stated in an earlier post, i enjoy applying my bursts by hand and keeping it as much "hand made" as possible...glad also to read that others so much more tallented then i feel the same way...and yes, scrapeing the binding is a pain....and great to know you are back in the shop after that nasty fire....can't keep a good guy down.......keith
    kterry

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    Spraying 'bursts is not all that difficult, and you can spray metal acid dyes directly on wood to get that hand rubbed look. You can also spray the dyes onto tacky sealer to get a more opaque look if need be, and then lock in the dye with another coat of sealer. The more modern method is using transluscent colored lacquer or urethanes, but that goes too opaque for my taste much of the time.

    When I do spray the metal acid dyes for a 'burst, I do the medium dark edge in a warm brown first, then the yellow, then a dark Van Dyke brown just at the very edge. If I'm doing a three color 'burst (really four), I'll do the red last. Then I lock in the stain with a couple of coats of Waterlox before moving forward with sealers and clear topcoats. If I need to hide something near an edge, I'll spray brown dye into the first coat of sealer when it's tacky, and then shoot another coat over that.

    My favorite gun for colors is a Sata Mini-Jet. These guns are stupidly expensive, but they last for decades and you can easily rebuild them. They also spray decently when they're on their last legs before a rebuild. I've been using the same two Sata guns now since about 1995, so they've well paid for themselves.

  11. #36
    Registered User David Houchens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    I am using liquid stains from Mohawk. I'm not sure what the make-up is but I can rub a nice sunburst with them. I prep the instrument very much the same as John (Sunburst).
    John, you are familiar with this type of stain. How does it compare to what you are using?

  12. #37
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    David, I've never used the Mohawk stains. I used the Star Chemical stains before Mohawk bought them and changed all the colors. The Star stains were by far the easiest I've used to get good rubbed 'burst, and if the Mohawk version of those is still the same other than the colors they're very easy to work with and quite a bit easier than the ones I'm using now.

    Rick, I sometime spray 'bursts directly on the wood, and to my eye they do not look like a hand rubbed burst. Close, but not the same. As for which is easier, to me spraying a 'burst is much easier than rubbing.

  13. #38
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    As you can easily tell from all of the different posts, there are a ton of ways to achieve a great sunburst finish, some very technical and equipment intensive, some brilliantly simple. Most of us learn a method that works for us after trying many that were unsuccessful, and then stick with that one. I use several motheods, depending upont the outcome I'm after, what the individual instrument seems to tell me to do, and based on the rewuests of the person who will be getting the instrument asks for. Pick one, practice practice practice, and know that at some point everything will change and you'll be back to the drawing board again...

    The irony in that handrubbed finish video of mine is that the instrument I'm actually playing at the end of the segment (Cricket) was finished with a spray gun, not handrubbed....

    I'm about 50 / 50 handrubbed vs. sprayed or a combination of both- for just the color application- everything else is French polished. I used to use the Sata minijet that Rick mentions; these days my favorite gun is the Devilbis 503 traditional touch up gun- incredible fine atomization without needing a separate hvlp system. I'll likely stick with it until something breaks....

    j.
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  14. #39
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    John, as far as I can tell, some of the Star products just got moved into Mohawk's line. I'm using some of their dyes and am pleased by and large. But when you get into certain colors, eh.....

    I also do the multiple apllication thing, rub, seal, tint, MEK is a wonderful thing for some colors, and mixing with some finish or spraying onto a still wet sealer to get a toner is to dye for.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    It's really great to have more than one trick up your sleeve for doing 'bursts. Glad to see others have come to this as well.

    For me, even the sprayed 'bursts take on a bit of the hand rubbed aspect as I use Waterlox brushed on and then rubbed off with a blue paper shop towel. This helps blend the colors really nicely and softens the whole look. It also sets the MEK stain nicely so sprayed sealer or FP doesn't pull the color out of the wood.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    To qualify my Ignorence I haven't ever tried a burst as it's been a mystery to me. However this thread has me inspired so i got some stu mac metal complex dyes.
    Vintage amber, medium brown and cherry red.
    I'd very much like to duplicate the Martin/ collings amberburst on a guitar I'm about to finish.
    so far I have only been applying french polished shellac so would like to continue in the hand applied mode.
    Can anyone be of any assistance in the process, with the colors I have?

    Peter

  17. #42
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    Martin sprays their 'bursts and I believe Collings does too. At any rate, If I need to duplicate a Martin 'burst, I spray it with amber and brown, and that pretty much does it.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    Thanks for your reply John.
    I just made a color board with the colors I have straight up and also some blends.
    I think I've got it now.

    Peter

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    Martin has a history of doing the most hideous sunbursts of all time, and I say this as a long time fan of Martin guitars. I prefer the 'bursts done by the thousands at the old Chicago Harmony factory!

  20. #45
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    True, it looks like the folks at Martin just didn't get the concept or a 'burst a lot of the time, but there are some pretty good examples from the late 30s and early 40s.
    Don't get me started on bad bursts, there certainly are a lot of them out there (IMO), and some of them sell for big bucks at auction!!

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    I holheartedly agree, those dark busts are probably the worst you'll see out there.
    What I do particularly like though are the Martin/Collings amberburst, they arn't so much a burst as just a shaded top very gradually getting a little darker toward the edges.

  22. #47
    Registered User majorbanjo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    Leo Posch hand rubs his finishes on his guitars with a very nice effect....the guitars sound better than they look....

    Thank you baby Jesus for one smokin hot mandolin...

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    Are the strings really as far off the centerline of the sound hole as they look? Check the distance from each E string to the nearest edge of the soundhole...

  24. #49
    Registered User John Gardinsky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    That photo is not straight on. You can see the side dots on the fretboard.

  25. #50
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand rubbed sunburst finish

    Yep, I think it's the camera angle, look at the back graft.

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