Soul

[banjoboy]

Almost a year ago, I attended a banjo camp. At the camp were several well known banjo players, including some who who are "giants" on the instrument and who have played major historical roles in the music. One of the players told us that he didn't believe that musicians today have "soul" like players from his era (1940's/50's, etc). He talked about traveling around the country with his bandmates in unfavorable conditions (i.e. packed into a station wagon with their instruments, not the best lodging conditions, etc). He implied that musicians today have it easy, and thus, I guess, lack soul.


So....
1. What is soul?
2. How do you get it?
3. Does suffering equal soul?
4. Does having soul make you a good player?

I know I've suffered for my music, and others around me who've heard me practice and play have suffered as well. Just wondering.

[makemeasammich]

Well, I see his point. Suffering involves and enables many different emotions and provides a lot of "material" for artistic use. However, suffering does not equal soul. It's only a path towards it. If someone wanted a write a song about a newborn son, they could channel all of those happy feelings into a really heartfelt, soulful song. I think of a soulful player as someone who's really good at channeling their emotions into song, through their instrument of choice. Any emotion can be translated into music-pain, sorrow, anger, happiness. I think having soul is essential to being a great player. Someone who doesn't have it, I think, would be without passion and, well, boring.

[rnjl]

I know I've told this story before, but in the late 80's I was backstage at the U of Chicago Folk Festival and chatting with Yank Rachell, who told us that none of the stuff he sang about- drinking, womanizing, heartache, was actually his life. He was married for a gazillion years, had children and grandchildren who were all basically middle class, normal folks and was a deacon in his church.

But boy, did he have soul. . . .

[jim_n_virginia]

EVERY generation (and not just musicians) "thinks" that the present generation after them is lazy, spoiled, has too much, disrespectful of elders, has it too easy and yada yada yada.

Old guys have been telling young guys for eons (women for some strange reason don't do this very much! Hmmm LOL) ... "Well back in MY day etc. ..."

It is in THIS mindset is where "musicians now a days just have no SOUL" comes from.

Personally (that means IMHO!) I believe it comes from individuals who deep down inside know that their best days have gone by and it is a subconscious effort to stay relevant! LOL!

[Bertram Henze]

You recognize the musician's soul not by his suffering, but by his audience not suffering...

We tend to forget that genuinely traumatized people only traumatize other people, not the other way round. Why it should take bitter experience to make sweet music I'll never understand.

[OldSausage]

Frankly I'd rather have an easy life, and lack some vague, indefinable quality - given the choice.

[Charley wild]

Frankly I'd rather have an easy life, and lack some vague, indefinable quality - given the choice.

Well, I've led a pretty easy life and lack several indefinable AND definable qualities but I'm not sure I have "soul". Just kidding, David.
I think Makemeasammich and Bertram pretty well summed up my take on it. It's the ability to transmit emotion to someone else. And it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be from any era or grow up poor. It may help!
I know I've heard a lot of white middle class Blues bands that never did much for me.

[Matt DeBlass]

Frankly I'd rather have an easy life, and lack some vague, indefinable quality - given the choice.

I'd like to have either one or the other!


I think it really does come down to the ability to be passionate and emotionally expressive. I've seen it in 70-year-old bluesmen, I've seen it in 17-year-old punk rockers. It's the ability to connect with the audience and effectively communicate what you're feeling (whether or not it's your own life story, it's got to be real for the length of the song).

[Bertram Henze]

whether or not it's your own life story, it's got to be real for the length of the song

Too much reality can even be disturbing - I remember a gig where I sang that song about the poor guy looking on while his love is married to another. Just two days before, our guitar player's girlfriend had left him and struck up a relationship with me. Suddenly it all sounded like hypocrisy!

(btw. she is my wife now for 20 years)

[sunburst]

Having worked for a banjo maker for years and having met many of the " 'giants' on the instrument and who have played major historical roles in the music", I would almost bet I could guess who it was who said that. There are a few who would say that sort of thing simply because that's the attitude they have, and no matter how much "soul" a modern player has they would be hard pressed to acknowledge it.

[JEStanek]

John wins the tactful insight award of the day.

Jamie

[catmandu2]

Back in the day, of course, media outlets weren't as sophisticated to transmit the economic interests of the music industry and performers relied upon, well...performing. Any musical entertainer is familiar with the elements of a successful performance: conveying a musical feeling and connecting with an audience. Now, a "recording artist" may successfully earn an income replicating a formulaic style in large, impersonal venues, and bona fide musical and performing artists struggle to gain an audience at all. I'm sure many retired athletes are also dismayed by the salaries of contemporary sports figures--when their cohort played for the game on a fraction of the salary.

Naturally, the feeling of blues music is associated with certain disadvantaged economic conditions. No doubt, based upon historic evolution of the industry, these feelings persist and are probably not universally based in fact, as are most myths.

Then the problem of "soul." What Matt said about passion and emotional expressiveness is a good basis. Another way to describe this is "authenticity." So, obviously, when the environment permits music to be emotionally shallow for a variety of reasons, the content will likely be lacking in authenticity. The shorthand way to describe this condition is the term "soul-lessness."

One needn't authenticity to succeed in business including music and other forms of industry--indeed, inauthenticity may be an asset in certain segments of the entertainment industry. But when considering artistic value, these criteria become much more meaningful.

BTW, excellent topic, banjoboy.

[Geoff B]

The question, in my mind, is not whether it is there or not, but whether YOU SEE it (or feel it, or experience it, etc.). I've sat, unimpressed, listening to folks play music while the person next to me is having a semi-religious experience, listening to the same thing. We all get something different out of it, and the only thing you can really judge is your own perception.

There is plenty of soul out there in the world, choosing to see it or experience it has no bearing on the fact that it is there...

[TonyP]

This has come up (hasn't everything?) before, but a little different. I agree with Geoff, soul is in the ear of the beholder. It's another one of those things like describing the tone of the mando. Hard to do with words. I've heard people say someone has soul, and I just heard they were what I would kindly describe as rough. And the player who sounds great to me sounds "slick" to that other person. Same with singers. There is a fine line for me between technically competent and sterile and on the other end "edge" and sloppy.

It would seem a given for some that you have to pay your dues. And that can take so many forms, it would seem it's different for every person. I remember seeing a documentary on Stefan Grappelli. Wow, an orphan at a young age, playing on the street. It basically sounds like he learned how to play that way. Talk about playing for your supper. Now, I wonder if that unnamed banjo player had to go through that much? and if not, he'd have to admit he lacked soul? I doubt it.

When blanket statements are made, I always like to hear examples and get to ask questions how they came to that.

[Randi Gormley]

Jim-in-virginia has a good point also -- that some people have always tended to discount the younger generation's abilities just from general cussedness. In my profession, the joke is that the golden age of your current newspaper was 8 months before you arrived, and it's been going downhill since ... i used to hear world war veterans talk about how the younger generation wouldn't be able to snap to and defend the country or give of themselves to help others if need be because they were all spoiled babies (and then came Sept. 11 and i didn't hear that quite so much) .. so I tend to discount that 'only my generation and those before me were real human beings' argument. There are good and bad, soulful and soulless in every generation. I wouldn't presume to say at what at age soul shows through to your music, since it's as individual as it is to the listeners, imo

[jim_n_virginia]

Suffering involves and enables many different emotions and provides a lot of "material" for artistic use.

I once went to hear some folk singer in a coffee house sing and he came out and announced to the audience ... "I have really suffered for my music and now ... it's YOUR turn!"

[Laird]

When I think "soul," I think passion. I tend to equate soulful singing and playing with a certain rawness--not lack of talent, but lack of restraint. When you hear Ben Harper's voice crack, you know it's not because he lacks the ability to sing more precisely. It's because precision is a poor substitute for passion. It has nothing to do with age or hard living (though I suppose it might be easier for folks living a hard life to get in touch with their passions than folks living the life of ease).

Can someone be soulful and play or sing precisely? I suppose so, but I'd rather hear them lose control a bit. I'm turned off my music that's too slick, too polished, too precise. ('Course I'll never have to worry about any of those things.) Give me home-made music from the heart, warts and all!

As usual, I could be wrong, but that's how it looks from here.

[allenhopkins]

It's all authenticity. Once you can fake that, you've got it made.

[catmandu2]

...and all art is commerce.

[makemeasammich]

I once went to hear some folk singer in a coffee house sing and he came out and announced to the audience ... "I have really suffered for my music and now ... it's YOUR turn!"

LOL!!! I've got to remember to use that some day!

[Fretbear]

It shouldn't be assumed that playing soulfully means playing with less technical proficiency. While it has been known to happen, it is certainly not necessarily the case. Equally, playing highly technical music does not substitute for soulfulness, and can often result in the opposite. My favorite musicians without exception share one trait; they cannot tell a musical lie. That element of their musical expression is possibly the only part of their art that they have not had to work hard on, it is implicit and natural to them. Since the name of the topic is "soul", it might be considered that how much someone has suffered or experienced, and their ability to convey it to others, is not necessarily just from this present life, and that what they are sometimes expressing has much deeper roots than are readily obvious, even to the artist himself.