Binding lifting

[JCook]

I have a Kentucky KM150S that I had set up by a luthier about three weeks ago. He did a great job on it, it's now a much more playable and better sounding mandolin, and tunes up much better. But I've just noticed that the binding on the fingerboard on the top side (the side with the markers) has lifted a bit. There's about a two inch long area where I can see a slight separation. I'm thinking that when the neck was straightened in the set-up the pressure of that may have caused the glue to finally let go. I'm thinking I can fix this myself by getting some glue into the separation and clamping it, but I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. What kind of glue would be best to use in this case? And any other advice or tips about this?

thanks,
Jack

[sunburst]

If you are handy, have experience with glues and know how to keep them where you want them, you can do this yourself.
The safest glue would be Titebond or equivalent. Just work it into the gap with a thin blade and tape the binding tightly in place until it dries. (The tape needs to be of a type that will not lift the finish when removed or damage tehe finish while in place.) Clean up with a warm, damp rag.

If you have full confidence in your ability to keep thin superglue off of any surfaces other than inside the binding gap, you can use that to glue it back in place.

[Rick Turner]

The biggest problem is that the glues that adhere plastic binding well also have solvents that will attack many finishes, so you have to work quickly and cleanly. Regular wood glues do not adhere well to plastic binding, so Titebond, hot hide glue, or LMI glue won't work effectively.

I'd probably go with superglue.

The Kentucky finish may be polyester in which case glue solvents will not be an issue.

[JCook]

OK, so it sounds like superglue is the way to go. And I'll work it in with a razor blade or and x-acto blade. I have some luthiers clamps that may work to clamp it (I'll try it dry first to make sure), but if I use tape, what kind of tape would you recommend? Is there a particular brand that is good for this kind of thing?

thanks,
Jack

[sunburst]

You don't need any tools, other than perhaps a tooth pick or plastic pipette, to handle the thin superglue. It will "wick" into the gap, or any other area where it gets a chance. That's why it needs careful handling. Stewmac's binding tape or various masking tapes will hold the binding in place. If the superglue wicks under the tape, however, removing the tape becomes a different challenge, so don't let that happen.

BTW, Titebond et al, while not being particularly good at attaching plastic bindings, works much better for re-attaching bindings because the binding often takes wood fibers with it when it comes loose giving the adhesive something to hold onto. I often use it for binding repairs but never for installing new plastic bindings.

[Greg Mirken]

Jack, you might not need to tape or clamp at all. I will often work in small sections with superglue. Being ready to press the binding tight, I will let a drop of thin superglue suck under the binding with a toothpick (no need to try to spread it with anything). Have something ready to wipe off any ooze right away. You have to hold the binding down for a few minutes; then work on the next section.

Another technique is to tape or clamp the binding down first, leaving spaces to introduce drops of superglue to the binding edge. You have to be very careful not to let the glue wick under the tape- that can be a mess.

[JCook]

Thanks, all of you, for your input. I think this is going to be fairly easy to do, so I'll get some superglue and have at it today or tomorrow. I appreciate all your advice. I'll let you know how it comes out.

Jack

[Rick Turner]

If you use superglue, seriously consider the micro-pipettes sold by LMI or use a toothpick to transfer the glue as has been suggested. Dispensing directly from whatever container it comes it also comes with a lot of danger of releasing too much of the stuff, and fresh thin superglue is really runny. Learning to handle superglue IS a real skill...as is learning to undo the damage from too much of the stuff where you don't want it to be. All the pro luthiers here have been through this learning curve, I'm sure; and we all have moments we'd rather forget.

[Hans]

I'm with John, use Titebond. I've used it on old bindings and it works well. You can get any squeeze out with water and a rag, and if you're not extremely careful with cyano, you can make a mess.

[Dale Ludewig]

It's a mess, ain't it? I'd go withThatthere guy that lives up near the the Twin Cities. Oh, For Kri.......... Sorry. Titebond is probably a good choice then. Ya know. It ain't likely to hurt nothin' ya know! It can always be reversed. CA can't.

[jim simpson]

This thread is timely as I've been putting off re-applying loose binding on my Martin HD28. I've use Duco cement on mandolin bindings before (new not repairs) and thought I might try super glue. I'm a little nervous about getting glue on the finish so a good tape up with blue masking tape is in order. I've known of a least two freinds have the same thing happen with their Martins. It's always the binding on the back, not the front.

[Rick Turner]

Do NOT try to use masking tape around superglue and nitro lacquer, and don't ask me how I know this! Is the binding just loose or has it shrunk in the waist? If it's shrunk, you may need to heat it up carefully with a heat gun and tape it in place to cool before regluing it. In this case, I might just reverse my previous advice and go with an easy clean-up glue like Titebond or LMI white glue. Worst case, it pops again and you're no worse off than you are now.

But really be careful with solvent based glues or superglue around nitro lacquer.

[jim simpson]

Rick,
Thanks - I don't think it has shrunk but kind of hard to tell. I could tape and heat a little as I go to check for shrinkage. I'd be willing to try the white glue first to see how that works. As you've stated, if it doesn't hold, I'm no worse off.

[Rick Turner]

Shrinking and loose binding was a real problem for a few years issue of Martin D-35s. When I was doing retail repair work in a busy shop in LA (Westwood Music), it got to the point where someone would call and say, "I've got a D-35 and...." And I'd jump in and say, "The binding is loose in the waist and your high E string is catching under a fret end at about the 13th fret. Bring it in." The customer would be absolutely amazed, and I got an easy repair job.

[sunburst]

Well, this is sort of a tangent for a mandolin forum, but shrunken Martin body bindings, pulling out in the waist of the guitar, need to over-stretched to go back in place tightly enough to glue with Titebond-like glue. I put shims of some kind under the binding and heat it with a heat gun (CAREFUL!!). If I can stretch the binding into the waist with shims under it near where it is still attached, it will fit tight when the shims are removed. It can then be glued and taped in place.

When using superglue, the blue striping tape will keep it off of finishes and fingerboards, but only if very clean and well applied. Regular masking tape will make a mess beyond imagination.