Removing Frets

[Link]

I'm considering buying another emando as a spare, and I was thinking about removing the frets. What would that entail? Would I have to take it to a luthier, or could I just pry 'em off with a screwdriver*? Or something in between?

*He's kidding. Probably.

[Michael Lewis]

Are you thinking of refretting it, or making it fretless?

Prying or wedging frets out of the fingerboard will leave a mess. It takes a special tool to lift the frets out. It is an end cutter with the face ground flush with the cutting edges. Look in the LMII or Stew/Mac catalogs.

[Tavy]

I'm with Michael on this one: if you want to remove frets get the right tool for the job - it'll make life so much easier. Trying to use anything else will almost certainly make a mess of the fingerboard (think splits and chips). You'll also need a soldering iron to heat the frets as you remove them: refer to the many articles on frets.com for the details.

On the other hand, if you have access to an experienced luthier, he'll whip them out for you in no time...

HTH, John.

[Link]

I was thinking fretless, and by the sound of it the mando would need a whole new fingerboard. Am I right? If that's the case, I'll go to a luthier for sure. How much would it cost?

[Tavy]

Definitely a whole new fretboard: unless you fancy playing an instrument with gaping holes in the fretboard

No idea on price, and be warned that you may not get much sound from the instrument: these things have frets for a reason!

John.

[Link]

Well, I figured the sound problem wouldn't be as bad with an electric.

[Jude Reinhardt]

Here's a thought. Have the frets professionally removed and fill in the fret slots. For a less noticed fix fill the slots with J-B Weld epoxy and stain the fretboard black (ebony look). For the feel of fretless and a more conventional look fill the fret slots with a contrasting color binding material (plastic). With that, you'd have a reference to where the notes were.

Jude

[EdHanrahan]

I was thinking fretless...

Forgive my inexperience here, but is this AT ALL common? I can see where the massive strings of a fretless bass can sustain despite the inherent fingertip damping, but mando strings are far from massive.

Or is it an electric thing, where tons of compression & sustain keep the sound going?

[lonewolf]

The biggest issue in my mind is that with a scale length so short, intonation will be super difficult. You will probably need to develop some sort of a fingertip rolling motion, much like fiddle players (or violinists for you high brow types) use, to make the note warble enough, to widen the notes. It will almost surely become a melody instrument, single notes or possiblel double stops. Chords will be out of the question.
Gene Warner
repairman

[Link]

Well, I'm a violist, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'm not used to having frets slowin' me down.

[Michael Lewis]

Well, maybe you would be better off just filing the frets off, leaving the tangs to mark position. This way there is no risk of damaging the finger board from lifting chips as frets are pulled.

Carefully remove the nut, and file the frets away with a large single cut (mill #######) file. Finish up with sand paper 220 grit up through the grits to 600 or so. When you replace the nut it will have to be re cut to compensate for the missing height of the frets.

I don't know of anyone playing a fretless mandolin, but if you have the inspiration and perseverance there is no reason I know why it can't work.

[Rick Turner]

Michael, you bad boy! You know better than to call a mill b..t.rd file by it's correct name around here! How the h.ll does one go and buy one in a store without being offensive?

Two points...I use an American Beauty resistance soldering station to run low voltage, high current through the frets to heat them; the frets themselves become the heating element. It puts the heat exactly where it does the most good with the least possibility of burning wood.

You might consider something like Formica as a fingerboard surface for this project. Get a scrap of black ColorCore from a local cabinet shop. The hardness will work well for fretless.

[Michael Lewis]

I feel like I been caught smoking corn silk again! I forget the "filter" is in place.

[Walt]

I've pulled the frets out of my electric bass and filled them in with wood strips that match the fretboard. I think when Jaco first pulled his frets out, he didn't fill the fret slots with anything.
Here is a supplier for several thin wood strips that I have bought from. They have several different colors. If you get a color that matches your fretboard, people will not be able to tell that there were ever frets from far off, but up close you will be able to see the lines enough to get the correct finger position.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Acute-Ma...0Q2em14?_pgn=2
Ask for the 1/4" wide strips. Follow everyone else's advice about pulling the frets. Make sure you heat them up before trying to pull them. Use regular wood glue to hold the wood strips in the fret slots. The wood strips will be tall enough to stick up above the fretboard, so trim them down fairly close. If you have a sanding block that matches your fretboard radius, use it to sand down the strips flush to the fretboard- this will help true the fretboard at the same time. If you don't have a sanding block, carefully sand the wood strips flush to the fretboard. If you are going that route, do not be aggressive when sanding, or you will change the contour of the fretboard.

[John Flynn]

I am no luthier, but from what I've read, it might be just as easy to have a luthier remove the fret board, frets and all, and put a new, unfretted finger board on. I think the advantage would be a smoother, and better looking, surface. You would probably want to use flatwound strings also.

[Walt]

John is right about using flatwounds. Roundwounds will destroy a fretless fretboard.
You might as well try to do it yourself before paying someone to replace the entire fretboard. I converted my bass to fretless for $5 and an hour or two of my time. If it doesn't work out, you are only out a few bucks--then you can take it to a luthier.
Also, what kind of bridge is on the e-mando? Be prepared to have it to lower it a lot.

[Link]

Hmm. I'm not so sure about just filling in the frets–I want to fingerboard to be completely–and I mean completely–smooth to the touch. It might be easier just to get a new fingerboard.

Would regular acoustic flatwounds be good enough, or would I have to get electric ones? I see Martin doesn't sell G and D electric strings in flatwound...

As for the bridge, I'm afraid I don't know.

[John Flynn]

Your best bet on flatwounds would be T-I mandolin strings, with a lower-cost option being Labella Jazzmando JM-11s or the Jazzmando Mandobird set.

[Michael Lewis]

If you file the frets off, your fingerboard will be as smooth as you make it. There should be no gaps or grooves to feel.

[man dough nollij]

With the high tension and short scale of a mandolin, I can't see the fretless option working. If you're a millimeter off in your finger placement, you're way sharp or flat, not to mention the fact that you'll have to have super low (buzzy) action to get it to work. Good for you for trying it out, but I'm not thinking it's going to work very well.

[Steevarino]

Well, Link has already mentioned he's a violin player. No frets there, and pretty much the same scale.

I guess I'm a lot lazier than Michael (actually, I know I am, because I have watched him work) but what I would do, faced with a project like this, would be to pull the frets and fill the slots. Seems like a lot of work filing the slots all the way off. Some builders and fretboard makers go pretty deep with these slots. Might not be a lot of board left. So-o-o-o . . .

I would get some black cyano from StewMac. I use it all the time. It's great stuff. If you use a soldering iron to heat up the frets, like Rick suggested, and if you use the right tool, you can keep chip out to a minimun. If your fretboard is ebony, the black cyano will hardly show up at all. If you use one of those tiny little tips, you can get the cyano right down in the slots. Spritz it, sand it, fill again if there are any low spots, sand it again, adjust your nut, and you are ready to go. This is exactly how many builders install inlay, so I wouldn't worry about it being smooth enough.

Also, since this does seem to be a bit of an experiment, this way would be reversible, just in case you, or the next owner might prefer frets on their mandolin.

[mandroid]

The Bow with a violin keeps the string vibrating , but , think Pizzicato sounds,
picking the string will be a short quick fade ,
just to be realistic..

[Link]

I said I'm a VIOLIST! As in VIOLA! Gah!!! Hoo... Happy thoughts... happy thoughts... OK. I'm better now.

I don't think sustain will be a big problem with an electric, and vibrato can be used to help sustain the note too.

[Michael Lewis]

Steve, I meant to just file the crowns off, not the slots too. I would not like to work THAT hard.

[Richard Sanabia]

I filed the frets off of a mando, and left the tangs on. Looks pretty neat, and the fiddle player owner liked it a lot. I also planed off the fret board on another mando and glued a new fingerboard for a guy that wanted to try a fretless instrument. The new fingerboard on top worked the best as I tapered it a bit and it raised the board 3/16, then a new bridge and nut finished it off. The owner,(fiddle player), enjoys it very much. There wasn't as much of a loss of volume as I thought there would be. Another fun deal was to put a violin fingerboard on a mando, and changed it to a four string. The player likes to crack every up by playing it on his knee with a bow. As the bridge is almost flat it has a powerful drone sound. These old hillbillies can play anything and make you dance. I love to do these types of projects, as we spend jam night in almost continuous laughter and music. I'm not a real luthier, and I don't need a real job. so I will attempt most anything for a laugh, and pocket money.