Practice holding pick properly

**DENNY7P** · Jun-29-2009, 11:10am

A friend of mine showed me how to put a bic lighter in my hand in order to get my hand in proper postion for holding the pick,and it works! i use a armrest on my mandolin and he said if you hold your arm properly, your arm should be parallel to your strings and your arm would be over your tailpiece,so you don't the need the armrest ,or its in the wrong spot.Does anybody have any other good trick to use to play your mandolin properly,and what do you think of arm position?

**Philphool** · Jun-29-2009, 5:47pm

Broad sweeping statements/opinions are unlikely to fit all players/situations.
IMHO

**mando.player** · Jun-29-2009, 7:05pm

The Bic idea makes a lot of sense though. I've been looking for something to put there for a while, haven't found the right object. Off to the 7/11.

**Soupy1957** · Jun-30-2009, 4:10am

Since I'm relatively new to the mandolin, but I've been a guitar player for many years, I carry over some of the habits of my guitar playing, to the mandolin.

How I hold a pick has changed somewhat however, because of two factors.....one being that I'm doing individual string picking on the mando that I don't do as much of, on the guitar; and the other is that I'm still "planting" (something that many in here will tell me, and have told me, that they don't recommend), my pinky on the top, for string orientation.

I had made a video last night, for demonstration purposes, of my development thus far, and I watched it this morning. My pinky was planted of course, but I noted that my fingers were not all together.

I've heard it said that there are about as many hand positions as there are mandolinists, so it probably is not a big deal, but I'm thinking about how the orientation of ALL of my picking hand fingers relate to one another, and how that affects the end result.

In my case, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZvRn7_zlp4) my middle finger seems to be floating free on my picking hand, which could be a detriment I suppose, because it may act counter to the flow of my hand, being out there flopping around on its own.......I dunno.....if I were NOT to "plant" my pinky, and hold a bic, (for example), I suppose I'd be free-floating.

Which begs the question, .........how do you stay oriented to the strings so as to avoid hitting the wrong ones, if you are NOT planting a finger on the top cover. Are you orienting by your wrist on the saddle or something like that?

**Oliver R** · Jun-30-2009, 5:28am

For what it's worth, I have a loosely closed fist when playing and 'lightly' have my wrist or ball of thumb on the top corner of the bridge depending on where i'm picking (closer to or further away from the bridge)

**AlanN** · Jun-30-2009, 6:05am

Look at the pros.

They do it right.

**Oliver R** · Jun-30-2009, 6:25am

But even 'they' are all different and have there own style,
Some post and others don't.
Some play from the wrist and some from the elbow etc etc etc.....
It's all very subjective.

**AlanN** · Jun-30-2009, 6:33am

Exactly the point.

**Soupy1957** · Jun-30-2009, 7:02am

Chi-Chi Rodrigez was/is a VERY unconventional golfer.......but look what HE was able to do! I'm sure that I'll have my own style..........it's always good to root out bad habits that will interfere with growth, but not sacrifice individuality.

**EdHanrahan** · Jun-30-2009, 8:57am

Originally Posted by Soupy1957

... relatively new ... guitar player for years ... carry over habits ... individual string picking ... still "planting" ...

Soupy, your first part could have been written by me; I just checked off "all of the above"!

Originally Posted by Soupy1957

Which begs the question, .........how do you stay oriented ... if you are NOT planting a finger on the top cover. Are you orienting by your wrist on the saddle or something like that?

My response is found in Mike Marshall's 2 DVD set from Homespun. He has a series of seemingly simple exercizes that build into some interesting knuckle-busters or, more correctly, mind-benders. Well worth the effort! (After I got started, I took the pickguard off my mando, just for mental reinforcement).

My specific answer (I'm sure some will disagree) is that, with experience, you'll inherently learn/know the relationships of the strings to each other, and your pick will go next based on where your pick was last, regardless of where any non-picking fingers might be hanging out or locked in place.

After all, you don't brace your pinky on your ear to comb your hair; your hand knows where to go thru lots of experience and repetition. That's what I see Mike teaching with his exercizes, and what most good players appear to be doing. Fortunatley for me, it seems to be working!

**Soupy1957** · Jun-30-2009, 11:02am

"you don't brace your pinky on your ear to comb your hair"

That made me laugh out loud. Thanks!! I needed that!!

**300win** · Jun-30-2009, 11:31am

The "proper" way to do it, is the way that you feel most comfortable, and can do your best picking. Don't worry about what the other guy is doing, find the way you like to do it that works for you.

**JeffD** · Jun-30-2009, 12:07pm

I find that I don't do the same thing all the time. For note intensive playing I may brush or even plant, for double stop tremolo or for chords I might curl my fingers under and fly free. I am not convinced that holding the pick one way all the time for everything is necessarily a good thing.

The only advice I buy 100% is to have the least tension possible. Relaxed arm and hand and uninvolved fingers as much as possible.

**Soupy1957** · Jun-30-2009, 1:21pm

Speaking of "tension," I noticed yesterday that my picking hand was tensing up during one practice session, so I was trying to concentrate on keeping the hand relaxed, without sacrificing the attack on the strings. (Wasn't very easy to do, but I sorta relaxed a bit).

Mike Marshall had mentioned the importance of a freely-flexing, relaxed picking hand in the video that we've all seen posted in YouTube and referrenced in here.

Interestingly enough, I didn't experience the tension in my neck or shoulder or arm, but may have, had I not addressed the tension in my hand. I suppose the tension would have migrated.

**Rob Gerety** · Jul-12-2009, 7:48am

Originally Posted by 300win

The "proper" way to do it, is the way that you feel most comfortable, and can do your best picking. Don't worry about what the other guy is doing, find the way you like to do it that works for you.

Well, I don't know. I have found that certain techniques or habits I have developed in the early stages of my learning because they felt comfortable at the time turned out to be real problems as I progressed and left me in a situation where I had to unlearn something that had become extremely ingrained. I think when you are learning there is some merit to the notion that a little discomfort at first will sometimes pay dividends in the long run. Planting the pinky and the pick hold are two examples in my opinion.

I know you can find great players all over the map on this - but I still feel that getting rid of the pinky planting and training myself to hold the pick in the loosely held closed fist are making significant improvements in my playing - especially at full speed.

**300win** · Jul-12-2009, 1:21pm

Originally Posted by Rob Gerety

Well, I don't know. I have found that certain techniques or habits I have developed in the early stages of my learning because they felt comfortable at the time turned out to be real problems as I progressed and left me in a situation where I had to unlearn something that had become extremely ingrained. I think when you are learning there is some merit to the notion that a little discomfort at first will sometimes pay dividends in the long run. Planting the pinky and the pick hold are two examples in my opinion.

I know you can find great players all over the map on this - but I still feel that getting rid of the pinky planting and training myself to hold the pick in the loosely held closed fist are making significant improvements in my playing - especially at full speed.

RobG, the thing I meant by my post is as you go along learning you will find that you do change as you progress in your ability. What might work when you are learning a tune, picking slow, might not work when you get it up to speed. Since coming on here I had never given a second thought to the idea that planting your pinky is a bad thing according to some guys who might play for a living, and I still don't think it is a bad thing if you can play well that way, and if you can, then that's the way you should hold the pick. There is to me no single set best way to do it. As an individual a musician should strive to find his own style regardless weather someone else says what they are doing is wrong. A very good friend of mine wittnessed a conversationm between Hershel Sizemore, Butch Baldassari, and Ronnie McCourey. The gist of it was that Butch in apparently his ignorance commenced to telling Hershel that he was playing "Rebbeca" wrong, Ronnie stepped in front of him and told Butch, hey you idiot Hershel is the guy who wrote the song. So there you see , even professionals are sometimes wrong. I myself don't take much to heart how anybody else says to do a particular thing on a instrument. To me I don't care if you hold one upsidedown and backwards as long as you can pick the dang thing.

**Jim Broyles** · Jul-12-2009, 1:40pm

Watch this YouTube of Wes Montgomery and decide if you would teach a beginner to use his right hand technique on guitar. Yes, there are ways which work for an individual players, but the idea that there isn't a wrong way is, well, wrong.

**Baron Collins-Hill** · Jul-12-2009, 8:35pm

woah, i never knew he played like that. great vid. thanks.

**Soupy1957** · Jul-14-2009, 4:34am

I always wanted to learn the saxophone....how hard IS it, really?

**Rob Gerety** · Jul-14-2009, 5:25pm

Well, Wes isnt' a fair example really - he had a "double jointed" thumb. So, maybe if you have a double jointed thumb like Wes you might want to copy his technique. Although the thumb thing doesn't really explain the FOUR - count em - 4 - planted fingers!! Great video of a master.