Antique mando pictures desired

[bratsche]

Greetings everyone,

I've been once again lurking here, and not posting much of late. (Probably my not having a lot of time to play has abetted my non-participation. Hopefully I'll get back into it soon!) For any who are wondering, this being my last off-season before I reach the half-century mark, I've been making a point of doing some things I've never gotten around to, but always wanted to do. Earlier this summer, for example, I joined the local gem and mineral society, and took a cabochon making course. What fun! I've wanted to do that since I was about 10! But I digress...

Another of my projects has been working on getting my very own website on line! It's not up yet, but getting close... hence my request. The site is to focus on my design artwork printed for sale on various items by CafePress, with various subdomains devoted to different subjects I'm interested in. One of them will highlight my ivory pickmaking, and in order to keep the CafePress motif constant throughout, I've done a couple of designs with pics of my picks.

But I've also thought it would make this section a whole lot more visually interesting if I could offer some artistic pictures of antique plectrally-played instruments, as well. So yes, I'll be upfront - I am shamelessly asking for your digital photos, as well as your permission to use them on items that will be for profit. But I must also stress that it's not as though I'll just be slapping the pictures on there willy-nilly, and greedily hoping for monetary recompense. I plan on doing unique, well-thought-out, very tastefully creative presentations of these images - some minor image manipulation, perhaps a montage format - which will ultimately depend on what I have to work with. (The mandokin pics will not be combined with images of my ivory picks!)

For anyone who contributes a photo or photos that I end up using in this project, I will happily assist you in purchasing any item(s) that feature your photo(s) at my cost. And I'll give you personal credit for providing the photo(s) and/or instrument ownership on my site (or not, strictly at your discretion and direction!) Due to the artistic aspect, though, the design copyrights will be my own.

I am only soliciting photos of old, traditional bowlback, flatback and bent-top mandokin instruments, mainly because that's what I prefer to present (and I sure wouldn't want to step on the toes of anyone who's doing F-style designs, anyway!) The higher resolution, the better (I prefer no reduction at all from what your digital camera will produce - don't worry, I have broadband), different angles, good lighting and focus a must, and closeups of interesting detail are great. You all know what you like to look at!

So, if you think it would be a kick to have one (or more) of your prized instruments featured in this way, then please contact me, and we'll discuss it! Thanks for reading and considering this. I welcome your comments!

Warmest regards,

bratsche

[mandolooter]

Nice to see your still around B., I was wondering where you've been! I'll see if I can get a shot of mine "immortilized in art"! Now where's that digital camera hiding...?

[Jim Garber]

Brastche:
I will be glad to contribute what I can. Most of my interesting ones are at the Post a picture of your bowlback thread. If you see any of mine that you want in hi res or want different angles LMK.

Jim

[Eugene]

Brastche:
I will be glad to contribute what I can. Most of my interesting ones are at the Post a picture of your bowlback thread. If you see any of mine that you want in hi res or want different angles LMK.

Jim

Hey, me too.

[bratsche]

Thanks, guys!

Jeff - Yep, I'm still here, quiet but busy - and funny, but I'm working on a Weymann Mandolute collage for the project right now (well, duh, since it's the only antique instrument I possess!) I'll be sure to show you as soon as it's presentable.

Jim and Eugene - I will definitely be in touch when I have another look - remembering the sight of your gorgeous pictures "over there in that topic" was what sparked my idea to do this in the first place, and I was hoping you would offer! ;-)

bratsche

[mandolooter]

Great, I can't wait! Your mandolute is prettier than mine anyways! As I rub my crystral ball I see a purchase in my future...LOL

[bratsche]

Here's just a shameless bump to keep this topic from falling off the page, on what may be my last opportunity to post as this nasty Hurricane Frances looms ever closer to the Florida coast.

Just wanted to say that I've finished the Weymann Mandolute design:



which can be seen in greater detail here, as well as on a few other items if you follow the link at the top of the page backwards. More items will be added, and I've also received some nice bowlback pictures that I plan on working into designs to add in the near future, hopefully - provided I still have a computer and a roof over my head after the next few days!

Please pray and/or think good thoughts for all us folks in Florida... this thing coming at us is a monster!

bratsche

[Eugene]

Stay safe, bratsche...and your new duds are mighty groovy.

[bratsche]

Thanks, Eugene -

We've done everything we can possibly do, and now there's just the waiting. I am so bone-weary from the preparations of the past several days on minimal sleep - we thinned several trees that we just had topped in the spring, but which had grown like weeds since then. They really needed cutting again already, but we were only using manual pole saws and loppers... then we lucked out when a guy from the same company that cut them before came through yesterday, "free-lancing" with his chaisaw... we had him top two of the trees again, "severely" this time. Only problem was that the debris collection truck had passed through for the last time late Wednesday. So, in order to keep the newly cut branches from becoming projectiles, my husband and I went out in the dead of night after he got home from work, and carried 4 pickup truck loads away, to dump in a local canal. Luckily all the residents nearby were already behind the walls of their boarded-up houses, and could not see us in the act! ;-)

The thing that most worries us, though, is that our dingbat neighbor behind us, who only parties all the time and never acts responsibly, has never bothered to have her trees cut or thinned, so they could come down on her side of our house in a strong wind. She also has only taken in all her yard junk onto her patio, which faces ours, rather than inside her house. Obviously she's never been through a major storm before. I don't even know if she's staying or going somewhere else. Grrr... What an adventure. Ha!

bratsche

[bratsche]

Hi friends -

We finally got the 120V half of our power restored Thursday, but I've been afraid to have the computer on for more than essentials, or more than 5 minutes at a time because of the electricity situation. We are thankful that our house emerged from Hurricane Frances with no structural damage, but many in the area suffered roof damage and still are without power (or water, since we're on wells), and the cleanup of debris was a huge task that took several days. Due to an aforementioned negligent neighbor behind us, the powerlines shared by our two dwellings were damaged by friction from her too-tall trees, resulting in some appliance damage (including a computer and a refrigerator), the lack of any 240 voltage, and periods of wildly fluctuating power. Therefore, the status of our air conditioner and water pumps are unknown at this point. The offending trees were cut today, freeing the space for the lines to be repaired, so hopefully things will be getting back to normal around here soon.

bratsche

[Jim Garber]

bratsche:
Thanks for the report. So8nds like things will be normal one day. Sorry for your trials and tribulations.

Jim

[bratsche]

Hi Jim,

I think I'm back online in some regular way now. I thought so yesterday, until our phone and DSL lines went down inexplicably. So I spent the time offline, working on a composite of your very nice 1902 Martin bowlback images. ;-) Then today, when I went to research the instrument for some informative "blurbs" to include, I found this page here. After reading the part about Styles 5-7, I wonder if your "Style 6" might not, in fact, actually be the much rarer "Style 7"? I say this because the Style 6, as described as well as shown in the included picture on the 2/85 Frets Magazine, is not supposed to be as ornate looking on the front or to have the vine-inlayed fretboard and headstock. The Style 7, on the other hand, is said to have all that plus the fluted ribs. Look and see what you think (my apologies if you've been there before). Whatever the case, it is a beautiful example!

bratsche

[Eugene]

That site, bratsche, is that of Cafe regular Bob Devellis. The decor of Martin models changed considerably over the years. Back construction was a somewhat more consistent model feature across years than level or type of ornamentation. Both styles 6 and 7 featured 42 fluted ribs with ivory spacers. The numbered series (i.e. not the very early "G" series) were first cataloged in 1898 (they appeared in factory logs in 1896) and underwent some substantial changes across the series in 1901, 1904, and 1914. These generally were consecutive reductions in ornamentation as the mandolin heyday lost steam. In any event, the style 7 was not cataloged until 1904, although some were logged as being built as early as 1899. They were so rarely built that each almost qualifies as unique: progressing to the time of manufacture of Jim's piece, one in 1899, one in 1900, and four in 1902; there was a grand total of 32 made by the time the model disappeared in 1917.

[Jim Garber]

Here are a few more photos of another style 6 from 1899. Scroll down a little ways on the page to see, past the cellos.

Jim

[bratsche]

Eugene - yes, everything you say (and more from Bob D's page) seems to argue in favor of Jim's instrument being a Style 7, rather than a Style 6.

Jim - that instrument does look very similar to yours, but it only says it's an 1899 instrument, it's never actually described as a Style 6. Why do you think it's a Style 6?

I'm just trying to label and describe the darn thing accurately in the image collage I'm putting together! ;-)

bratsche

[Jim Garber]

bratsche:
I was going from Longworth's Martin book. The 7 was basically a custom 6. The difficulty in determining what styles these were has to do with the fact that the ornamentation changed with the years and, in the case of the higher end mandolins, the lack of standarization of ornamentation. Figure out that nayone who wanted to pay the price for a 6 or 7 prob went to the factory as asked for specific ornamentation. I have not seen two 6s that were exactly the same.

Saying all that: the main difference I can see in Longworth's description is that on the 7 there is a wider band of pearl around the sound hole and a subtle inlay of pear around the cap. Mine does not have that pearl inlay around the cap.

Jim

[bratsche]

From the page in question:

"The Style 5 is the first in the Martin mandolin model sequence to achieve truly stunning presentation-quality ornamentation. The eye-catching top binding comprised alternating blocks of white pearl and tortoise shell, forming a corded pattern. Style 5 is the only model to have this corded top border. Even more striking, these instruments featured an elaborate vine-like pearl inlay extending over virtually the entire ivory-bound fingerboard."

(Several Styles 5s are pictured, each with fancy pearl-inlaid fretboards and headstocks)

"The Style 6 was actually a bit plainer than the Style 5, but featured 42 fluted ribs, separated by ivory spacers." (my emphasis added)

(One Style 6 is pictured, which is indeed much plainer, with less inlay on the soundboard as well as more ordinary fret markers and modest headstock inlay)

"Finally, the Style 7, first cataloged in 1904 (although six were sold prior to that date, perhaps as special orders), had it all, and more: fluted ribs, ivory trimmed apron separating ribs from top, extensive gold pearl headstock inlay, white pearl vine on fingerboard, and wide pearl borders around the top and the sound hole."

(That sure sounds like Jim's instrument to me!)

bratsche

[bratsche]

Jim - from the part of Bob D's page referenced by Eugene, if your mandolin was made in 1902 and Style 7s were not even catalogued until 1904, I think that would strongly hint that yours had to have been a custom instrument made by special order, and one of a kind. I still think it looks more like a 7, though.

bratsche

[bratsche]

Figure out that nayone who wanted to pay the price for a 6 or 7 prob went to the factory as asked for specific ornamentation.

Yeah, they would have had to pay a whole $75 or $100 (swoon!)


Unbelievable!

bratsche

[Jim Garber]

The style 6 on the magazine cover that bobd shows is a later one. It looks very much like one in the Longworth book dated 1914. As Eugene and Bob noted the ornamentation got simpler as the age of the bowlback waned.

here is a picture of a 1902 style 6 from Longworth's book. The pickguard is very similar to mine.

Perhaps the easiest thing to do, bratsche, is to not indicate what style it is at all. On the other hand if you want to call it a 7, that is all right with me.

Jim

[Jim Garber]

Here is what I see on a stye 7. This is from the Washburn & Johnston book on Martins. There is a fine inlaid line of pearl outlining the cap of the bowl and on this one a fine line of pearl running on the bowl side near the top.

Mine does not have that pearl but does have the ivory binding.

Jim

[bratsche]

Jim - ah, yes, that one definitely looks more ornamented, like yours. I see what you mean. I had only seen the one used as an example on Bob D's page, along with the description of Style 6s being "a bit plainer" than the Style 5s.

Perhaps the easiest thing to do, bratsche, is to not indicate what style it is at all. On the other hand if you want to call it a 7, that is all right with me.

Well, as usual, I have the characteristic "white spaces" in the image collage, which I like to fill in with pertinent tidbits of information to make the presentation interesting, as well as eye-appealing. One such tidbit was the comparative rarity of both Styles 6 and 7, and their corresponding production numbers. In the interest of accuracy, though, I like to have the info I use be as correct as it possibly can be. ;-)

So I will defer to the experts, whatever they (you all) decide...

bratsche

[Jim Garber]

So I will defer to the experts, whatever they (you all) decide...

So, the statement that the style 6 was plainer than the 5 is a bit miselading. yes and no, right?

Jim

So.. Eugene and Bob.... what is the verdict.

BTW the statement that

[Eugene]

As variable as that high end was, I'm still with style 6. However, you should call the Martin shop and have them check the serial number against the log. Martin still has those records.

[bratsche]

Okay, then, for now, I'll possibly "err on the side of caution" and call it a Style 6, although this can be quickly substituted on a moment's notice with a Style 7 version I have waiting in the wings: