f-style as american icon

[mandozilla]

I agree American mandolin! 100%

Thanks for the back-up Bernie!

There must be some reason why no one wants to leave but most want to come to our shores. Ya think?

Don't want to go political but I'm with ya on this.

[Bernie Daniel]

mandozilla: Don't want to go political but I'm with ya on this.

Oh I agree -- I would never go there either.

[Nate]

There must be some reason why no one wants to leave but most want to come to our shores. Ya think?

Chalk me up as one who "wants to leave." *shrug*

[Bernie Daniel]

nate:chalk me up as one who "wants to leave." *shrug*

OK. Your call.

[Joe Dodson]

The mandolin moved closer to iconic status when Sir Paul made a video with one.

Meh. I was on board, until I read this.

/all my favorite Beatles died early.

[journeybear]

Ukulele (Hawaii's now part of the US) -- derived from Portuguese guitar-family instruments

BTW & FWIW: The Hawaiian name for "mandolin" is "kika pukiki" - literally, "Portuguese guitar"!

I have been hanging onto this factoid for six years. Finally found a time and place to express this. Thank you!

... I would hold up the F-style mandolin body as a significant icon of esthetic design, and cite its world-wide popularity. Since scroll and points are there basically as decoration rather than for acoustic enhancement, it really is a silhouette that has captured the imagination of musicians for its gracefulness and visual interest.

I really like this analysis. The F-style mandolin is indeed a unique iconic image, instantly recognizable and unmistakable for any other instrument. There's a reason its peghead was used on the Mandolin Cafe hat.

I believe it's more well-known than people think, but perhaps in a more subtle way. We are more attuned to it here because of our familiarity with it, but it shows up again and again. Of course it's not on the same level as certain other stringed instruments, but there was a time when it was king in this country, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. There's no telling whether it will enjoy another heyday. It is odd, though, that while the Father Of Bluegrass played mandolin, the genre is more popularly associated with banjo and fiddle. I don't know whether there was a second Mandolin Craze due to Bill Monroe's influence, but it seems there should have been. The instrument shouldn't be relegated to playing second fiddle, so to speak ...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Dan - I know re.the 'Banjar' being the 'historical forebare' of the Banjo. Even that's down to opinion,as many people have claimed than an Egyptian instrument called the 'Sarod' was also the predecessor of the Banjo.
The claim for the Banjo being the only 'true' Amarican instrument,is that it's the ONLY instrument to have been 'fully developed' to it's current state in the USA. A few years back,there was a programme on UK TV called "Echoes of America" - it may have had a different title in the US,but it was about the Banjo & it's origins.It made it clear that the a 'Banjo-like' instrument was imported from Africa & this evolved into the instrument the we ''ALL KNOW & LOVE'' today ,
Saska

[kestrel]

Speaking of the history of the F-style mandolin - another builder recently told me that when Orville first came out with the scroll and points, another well known builder apparently didn't think it was destined to be considered an "American Icon" and said that it was "a piece of wood dressed up as a prostitute". Do any of you mando historians know if this is true, or who was supposed to have said it?

Gene

[Timbofood]

Is that why we've all been "Hooked" by this "iconic" instrument?

[mandopete]

Cowbell - Made in the U.S.A!

Clarinet - Who cares? (hey, don't blame us)

[mandozilla]

It made it clear that the a 'Banjo-like' instrument was imported from Africa & this evolved into the instrument the we ''ALL KNOW & LOVE'' today ,

Saska
And I would maintain that a 'Mandolin-like' instrument was imported from Europe & this evolved into the instrument we truly "ALL KNOW & LOVE" today...the American Mandolin.

BTW Saska, I really do love the b***o and I greatly admire those, like yourself, who can play them...I just like to have a little fun at b***o pickers' expense sometimes.

[Mike Snyder]

Hey, JoeD, you may not be a fan of Sir Paul. That's OK. But he has a higher public profile than any artist playing the mandolin today. If a wider section of the public becomes aware of the mandolin as a result of his silly video, it's good, isn't it? Look what he did for that Hofner bass. Is it not iconic as a result of Paul Mcartney?

[Paul Statman]

Now I don't know if that's 100% accurate, but I do believe that it was Orville Gibson, an American in America, that first patented the carved top/back plate type mandolin...

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Orville was born in England and sent to America as a child.

[journeybear]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Orville was born in England and sent to America as a child.

I'd never heard that before, so I looked it up at wikipedia (as I often do). I am shocked - SHOCKED - that this is all they had on him:

Orville H. Gibson (1856 - August 21, 1918, Chateaugay, New York) was a luthier who founded the Gibson Guitar Corporation in Kalamazoo, Michigan in 1902, makers of guitars, mandolins and other instruments.

Gibson began in 1894 in his home workshop in Kalamazoo, Michigan. With no formal training, Orville created an entirely new style of mandolin and guitar, with tops carved and arched like the top of a violin. His creations were so different that he was granted a patent on his design.[1] More importantly, they were louder and more durable than contemporary fretted instruments,[citation needed]and musicians soon demanded more than he was able to build in his one-man shop.

On the strength of Orville Gibson's ideas, five Kalamazoo businessmen formed the Gibson Mandolin Guitar Mfg. Co., Ltd., in 1902. Within a short period after the company was started, the board passed a motion that "Orville H. Gibson be paid only for the actual time he works for the Company." After that time, there is no clear indication whether he worked there full-time, or as a consultant. Orville Gibson was considered a bit eccentric and there has been some question over the years as to whether or not he suffered from some sort of mental illness.

Starting in 1908, Orville Gibson was paid a salary of $500 by Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Manufacturing Co., Limited (equivalent to $20,000 a year in modern terms). He had a number of stays in hospitals between 1907 and 1911. In 1916, he was again hospitalized, and died on August 21, 1918 in St. Lawrence State Hospital, a psychiatric center in Ogdensburg, New York.[2] Gibson is buried at Morningside Cemetery in Malone, New York.[3]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I humbly suggest that someone who knows more about him register at wikipedia and improve this situation. The man certainly contributed more to the world than what can be discerned in a two-minute read! I am going to correct the birthplace attribution right now, as this article cited in the wikipedia entry has Chateaugay, New York as his birthplace, not final resting place as cited above. Clearly someone didn't read his own article. Yes, it happens ... Also, according to Siminoff, Orville's father was from England, while his mother was from Peru ... New York, that is. As was the custom of the day, John and Amy gave their children some rather fanciful names: in addition to Orville, he had sisters Pluma and Emma, and brothers Orzo and Lovell.

[Timbofood]

Once again, Mr Siminoff has done a right nice job on OHG it's right down the page from his Lloyd Loar information, I believe. I think he even shows the "interesting" suit photo. Fashion sense of the day was certainly "different."
http://www.siminoff.net/pages/gibson_background.html

[journeybear]

Once again, Mr Siminoff has done a right nice job on OHG it's right down the page from his Lloyd Loar information, I believe. I think he even shows the "interesting" suit photo. Fashion sense of the day was certainly "different."
http://www.siminoff.net/pages/gibson_background.html

Yes indeedy. Also look at the examples of his early instruments. Wild! Clearly evidence for (unsubstantiated) claims of mental frailty. The facility where he died was not a "psychiatric center" at the time.

[Paul Statman]

John, Orville's father, was an immigrant of England and his mother Amy was from Peru, New York.

Well, there you have it - I stand corrected!

[mandozilla]

according to Siminoff, Orville's father was from England, while his mother was from Peru ... New York, that is. As was the custom of the day, John and Amy gave their children some rather fanciful names: in addition to Orville, he had sisters Pluma and Emma, and brothers Orzo and Lovell.

journeybear! You da man!

It would seem that some folks are put off a bit by my referring to Gibson style mandolins as "American Mandolins"...Honestly, I can't imagine why that would upset, annoy, or bother anybody?..Isn't it OK for me to be proud of my country and its peoples' achievements?...never had any intention of making anyone uncomfortable, sorry if I did.

But guess what? It's still an "AMERICAN MANDOLIN"! HaHaHa

[woodwizard]

There is also a very old instrument in Japan that is simular to the banjo that's called a "Shamisen"

[Paul Statman]

But guess what? It's still an "AMERICAN MANDOLIN"!

I agree with you whole heartedly, mandozilla. To me, it is at least the (certainly most popular) modern American version mandolin.

[journeybear]

There is also a very old instrument in Japan that is simular to the banjo that's called a "Shamisen"

He is never gonna manage a banjo roll with that pick! Hmmm ... perhaps someone should alert the pick threads to this approach. Not only would it be hard to drop, it would be darn near impossible to lose ...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Mandozilla - If you wish to have a laugh at my expense,join the queue - you're directly behind ME !!.
For what it's worth,the first 'written' description of the "F" style Mandolin i ever saw,described it as an American 'flat-back' Mandolin. Obviously as against the Italian 'bowl-back' Mandolin.
American icon - IMHO along with the Banjo,the Mandolin as we know it is most certainly an icon,
but maybe only to us who actually know what it is.To the 'others',it's still a Uke or a little Guitar etc.,a shame really,
Saska

[Paul Statman]

..To the 'others' it's still a uke or a little guitar etc., a shame really..

Ain't that the truth, saska?! I know I can't be the only one here who gets introduced as a great banjo player, even if I've just finished telling them what I play - or worse - they've just heard me play! I'm afraid that the cold hard truth is closer (than most of us would care to admit) to 'they frankly don't give a damn'..
*still brass monkeys up your way?

[mandozilla]

only to us who actually know what it is.To the 'others',it's still a Uke or a little Guitar etc.,a shame really,

I'm afraid that the cold hard truth is closer (than most of us would care to admit) to 'they frankly don't give a damn'..

But you know what saska and mandopixie, I think folks, not in the know, well they're ignorant and as far as I'm concerned they can stay that way. It makes us, the mandolin community, kind of special I think.

I've always found the same to be true about folks' knowledge, or lack thereof, of bluegrass music. I don't give a hoot if the mandolin or bluegrass music ever become 'popular'...they're 'Popular' to us and it makes us special.

[Paul Statman]

But you know what saska and mandopixie, I think that folks not in the know, well they're ignorant, and as far as I'm concerned they can stay that way. It makes us, the mandolin community, kind of special I think.

Well put, sir!