Morgan Monroe and a Weber:

creekwater · Feb-07-2004, 6:30pm

Friday I went to a music store about 30 miles away. They had 4 Morgan Monroes from the laminated F-5 style, the black sycamore Phantom, the carved maple back and sides with spruce top, and the collectors series with the vine of life inlay. They also had a Weber Gallitan, and a Weber Yellowstone. And last of all they had a Gibson A-9 and a Gibson F-5 Master Model. I played all of them over the space of a hour and a half, except the laminated MM, and the A-9. I was in small enclosed room by myself which gave me a chance to see how they sounded. I was suprized. I started with the carved model MM and went up in the price range from there. The Morgan Monroe was a close second to the Weber Yellowstone in Volume, sweetness of tone, abd both had a very nice action. Both also had a bark all the way up from G on up the neck. Of course the Yellowstone sounded very nice, but the Morgan Monroe was close, and it could sound better, as all the others but it had good strings. The ones on it were very dead. Price of the MM;-$700. Price of the Weber;,-$2800. And by the way, the Gibson F-5 Master Model was the worse sounding mandolin out of the whole bunch. I'm going to try to get the coins to buy the MM as soon as I can, for it is the only one in my price range.

**John Flynn** · Feb-07-2004, 6:40pm

Yeah, OK, but that Master Model had a flowerpot on it, buddy! I'll bet you didn't think of that, did ya? Besides, in 50 years, it will "open up" and sound lots better than that Morgan Monroe. Then you'll be sorry!

**ngzcaz** · Feb-07-2004, 7:34pm

Cant say I'm that surprised. Many dealers
are touting these as the most bang for the
buck. It will be interesting if they maintain
or surpass the quality they have already
established in a few short years.

**MandoPicker** · Feb-07-2004, 7:37pm

Creekwater, I'm still laughing. I've tried to disect your post and I just can't make any sense out of it at all. The only conclusions I've come to are; you're trying to justify to your peers the recent purchase of a pacific rim mandolin in which you need constant reassurances of it's outstanding tone, you've been smoking crack, or you just can't hear yourself fart in dry leaves (meaning you're deaf). I tend to believe it's a combination of all the above.

John

**John Flynn** · Feb-07-2004, 8:07pm

Didn't we already do the snobbery/reverse snobbery thread?

**mandoJeremy** · Feb-07-2004, 8:17pm

Hey Creekwater, I would be VERY interested in how long you have been playing mando! Please, do tell.

**mandokid** · Feb-07-2004, 8:40pm

Yes, very odd that you would say the master model was the worst out of the bunch. There may be a few foreign made mandolins with exceptional sound, and there could be a few off webers and gibson. And sometimes its the player, not the instrument.

**JAK** · Feb-07-2004, 8:47pm

Maybe creekwater was having a bad-ear-day, but then again there is always the exception to the rule....

**prairiewind** · Feb-07-2004, 9:13pm

creekwater,

I own a MMS-2, and I like the tone... now. After fabricating my own one-piece maple bridge and putting TI heavy strings on it. The factory fit rosewood bridge was so poorly fit that I could see light under both the treble and bass sides. The strings it came with had bronze wound D on one string and nickel wound on the other. I would trade it even up for a Gibson MM any day. If the Morgan Monroe you played sounded that good, by all means buy it and enjoy it.

**mandomick** · Feb-07-2004, 9:23pm

Hey mando experts, what gives? I didn't hear one of you question Scott Tichenor's ability to judge a mandolin's qualities when he spoke very highly of a $750.00 Michael Kelly that was for sale at Mass St. Music and even suggested that he might buy it.

Creekwater played some mandolins and told us what he thought and what he'd buy if he could get the money together. I've owned 3 Webers and I didn't feel the least bit threatend or insulted by his post.

It's always sad to see somebody try to raise their level of self esteem or their standing among peers by taking a cheap shot at somebody else. That's all I got to say about that.

**MandoPicker** · Feb-07-2004, 9:30pm

MandoMick, Scott didn't say the Michael Kelly sounded better than his Nugget, either. You know, I accept that people have different tastes, etc. but a statement like creekwater made is just so out in left field. It's like saying, "You know, my Yugo rides SoooooOOOoooo much better than my wife's Cadillac."

John

**mcmando** · Feb-07-2004, 9:55pm

Oh, I dunno about any Yugo, but I've played some real dogs with a flowerpot on the headstock. Creekwater's entitled to his opinion and no one should belittle him for sharing it.

Creekwater, I've posted some similar comments and been blasted by the gibson police too so you're in good company.

**John Flynn** · Feb-07-2004, 9:55pm

I like the car analogy. My friend bought a Jag. Ever since, he has been complaining it doesn't perform as well as he hoped, it doesn't handle worth a darn (he failed to buy the Sports Package) and it spends most of the time in the shop. About the same time, I got a Nissan Maxima for about half the price. My car will outrun and out handle his Jag and it has never given me a lick of trouble. But if I suggested to him that the Nissan was a better car, he would get really upset and ask how I could possibly say that.

Companies that do nameplate marketing depend that kind of reaction. Cost does not equal quality. The Jag looks nice, though.

**mcmando** · Feb-07-2004, 10:01pm

One thing the Jag does have is fit and finish (as does the Nissan, I'm sure)! #Did you read the post on another thread about a brand new A-9. #The poor guy's gotta have a luthier refit the bridge becasue he can see light under the feet.

creekwater · Feb-08-2004, 8:43am

My age is 49 in June. I've been picking guitar since age 10, banjo since age 11, and mandolin since age 12. Played for a living for approx. 4 years. Won the Union Grove , N.C. mandolin competition at age 15. No I'm not on any drugs. Yes I can hear very well. I've noticed alot of pickers have to use electronic tuners constantly to stay in tune, I don't. In this post I just told it like it is. In the past I have picked some very good Gubson F-5s, but the ones that I've come in contact with over the past year have not been good sounding mandos. Charlie D. made a statement on one of my previous post that he had never seen a new mando of high quality such as a Gibson sound good when new. In my opinion that is a bunch of hog wash. I've played brand new mandos before of all makes including Gibsons that sounded fantastic. I believe there might be some of ya'll that post that don't have too much experience to back up the outlandish remarks that you make. Yes some of you are true POBWATS, I can tell this know.

**mandomick** · Feb-08-2004, 10:05am

I have a feeling that the answer isn't very flattering but what the heck is a POBWAT?

Feb-08-2004, 10:40am

It stands for Post O Brother Where Art Thou. #It is based on the foolish assumption that some events that bring a person to a genre of music are better than others.

**peterleyenaar** · Feb-08-2004, 10:49am

I have to side with Creekwater on this one, I am a new mando player, but I have played fiddle/violin for a long time and I think I have a good ear for music, tone and pitch.
I the short time (1 year) that I have experienced many mandolins(actually owned and sold them) : Gibsons, Webers, Collings, Givens, Mid mo, all really nice mandolins.I have played (not owned) some of the very expensive mandolins as well.
Last Christmas I was in Amsterdam and bought a Kentucky A with F holes mandolin for my sister from Palm guitars( really neat shop, look them up on the web)for (darn I don't have that euro sign on my computer)300 euros, what a bargain , Nice sounding mando, nice looking.
I was amazed that one could buy a decent sounding instrument and have a lot of fun for so little money , compared to what I payed for all my mandos.
My Conclusion: Most mandolins sound nice for the quality of the instrument, crap instruments are not bought by any decent musician, Mandolins with the big names and from $7500 to $ 100000 are WAY WAY WAY overpriced, they are probably quality instruments, but the price tag has very little to do with music.
Have you ever heard anbody say : "I am not buying that CD or I am not going to that show because the guy is playing a cheap instrument"
Most mandolins in the higher price range although different tone, have similar tonal qualities, the midpriced instruments are not far behind, inexpensive mandolins can sound good as well.
And we all know that a good musician can make a cheaper mandolin sound good,
A poor musician makes a very good mandolin sound like crap

**J. Mark Lane** · Feb-08-2004, 11:20am

Creek,

Was the Gibson really a "Master Model," or was it an F5 or F5G or something with "Master Model" written inside? I think it's unfortunate, but Gibson uses that phrase for a range of instruments.

creekwater · Feb-08-2004, 1:02pm

J. Mark Lane, it was a Master Model. At least that is what the label inside had printed on it. As I stated before, recently I picked at a jam in Cana VA., and there was a 1993 F-5G, and a 2002 F-5 Sam Bush model. They were both very weak in tone and volume. The things I have posted about my observations is not meant to pick on Gibson. I have picked many very fine Gibson F-5s, including the one that Ricky Skaggs played while he was in Boone Creek. I am not making these statements to cause controversey. I am just simply stating facts. In the past year I've only played one Gibson that sounded like a mando should. It was a brand new Gibson F-9. Thus that dispells what Charlie D. stated about the verty instruments he is involved in building. Have any of you wandered that Charlies main objective is to promote and sell Gibsons? I have played another Weber in the past year that was as good as the Yellowstone I picked the other day. It was a Bridger. Why did Bruce Weber not go with Gibson when they moved to Nashville? Could it be that he saw that quality might be going down? Yea I know that Gibson has some artist models now. But I'll bet you that there were special pains taking to construct the Steffy, Bush, Lawson, etc.mandos that these guys actually have. For instance the Sam Bush model that I spoke of above, I don't think "ol Sam would pick that one for the simple reason being that he could not be heard if he did, I'm speaking of the one I picked at the jam. Just because a instrument has a particular name inlaid in the headstock does not make it a good instrument. Thats the point I'm trying to make. I have a killer banjo. It is a 1930's RB-3 Wreath Mastertone Gibson. It outsounds all the banjos I've picked so far. And I've been in jams with other Gibsons old and new, Stellings, Deerings. I just lucked up and got a good one. Another thing that some have said I'm bashing higher priced instruments because I can't afford them That is ridiculus. If I had the money to spend 2-5 grand, I still would'nt spend it not unless the mando sounded good. If I found one that was $600-2000that sounded like it was supposed to, why spend more for a name?

**J. Mark Lane** · Feb-08-2004, 1:21pm

Now I'm beginning to think what you really has is a gripe with Gibson. All the "commentary" just to say that some mandos are better than others, regardless of brand?

Anyway, as I meant to say before, I believe the words "Master Model" appear on the inside label of a number of current Gibson mandolins, not just the real "Master Model." But aside from all that, anyone who impugns the integrity of Charlie Derrington has lost all credibility with me.

creekwater · Feb-08-2004, 1:27pm

J. Mark, think what you will. But I don't lie. And my comments about Charlie is just things that I wander about. I read the other day in a Nashville newspaper that Gibson might be going public. If that happens I wander if that will effect the quality of the Gibson instruments. And also I can't understand where you get the idea that I'm Gibson bashing, when I've already stated that I have played some very fine F-5s, and recently a very fine F-9, and have in my opinion the very best 5 string banjo that has ever been made; the Gibson Mastertone. So how do you get that I'm bashing Gibson?

creekwater · Feb-08-2004, 1:32pm

Also speaking of Charlie, I've heard that he was fired from Gibson five times. Wonder why? The man who told me this knows him very well. He stated that Charlie might hold the record for a luthier. But that is something that don't apply to my original post. I was and am stating what I've seen, heard, and held in my on two hands.

**neal** · Feb-08-2004, 1:40pm

Never mind.

**JimW** · Feb-08-2004, 2:01pm

I've read this topic a few times over, and topics like it for a few years on this board. It seems they all start out the same way, then as the conversation progresses, it becomes apparent what the posters motives are. Sometimes it troubles me to think that someone new will read a topic like this one and it will sway them from trying out not just a Gibson, but higher end mandolins in general. Then, I realize any intelligent individual will see what these topic starters, such as Creekwater, are trying to do. When it gets to this point, the originator has lost all credibility with anyone that's reading this crap. Also, I wonder what the motives are for someone that questions the integrity of Charlie Derrington, who, in my opinion, has a love for the mandolin that far exceeds his job title. I'm not defending Charlie, as I'm sure he's able to do that himself, but as stated above, when you made those statements, you lost any credibility that you might've had.

I also invite anyone that's read this topic this far to #Click Here and read the posts made by this individual and I'm sure you can come to your own conclusions as to what his motives are.

Jim Watts