Does your left hand ever hurt?

[kirkwhitehead]

I play the fire outta my "The Loar" but after an hour or so I find I get some pain in my left hand at the base of my thumb. Kinda the fatty part of teh thumb. You think neck to small or too big? or something else all together?
I have been thinking of a mando in the 900-1400 range in the next week or so maybe something with a "V" shape to it?

thanks

Kirk

[Dave C09]

Kirk, it may be worth seeing a doc (preferrably one familiar with repetitive stress injuries) possibilities are numerous - could be some kind of flexor tendinopathy. How long have you been playing mando? - might involve adjusting technique or breaking up playing sessions into shorter increments and build up to a longer session...
Neck shape can definitely play a role too.

I had a long, frustrating chronic pain (several years) in a similar area, which ultimately required surgical removal of 2 sesamiod bones at the base of the thumb by a renowned hand surgeon here & now I've had to sell & replace several stellar 1 3/4 nut guitars in order to replace them with guitars that had better (1 11/16) neck profiles for my hand.
Similarly, on Mando (at which I'm a relative newbie - 1yr) I've just acquired a Larrivee A33, with a much chunkier v-neck, which is likewise much more comfortable than my KM505 (OK - and much prettier too...)

First thing would be to figure out the cause of the pain, before making some expensive guesses...
Don't wait like I did...

Best,
Dave

[kirkwhitehead]

thanks Dave,
been playing mandolin for about a year. I play everyday for an hour or two. I have been playing acoustic guitar for about 9 years now. It never hurts when I play guitar and only sometimes when I play mandolin. If I am struming a lot of songs ( on mando) then it will hurt while playing then go away in about 5 min. of stopping. When I play guitar my thumb wraps on top to the low "E" string most of the time. And when playing mandolin it kinda points back to the headstock, except when playing melodies, then my hand is sliding up and down and not really squeezing anything.

I am wondering about the Gibson A9 mandolin, several in the classifieds for decent money, just don't know about the neck shape. Also a Ratliff A model has caught my eye, I was told that had a soft V shape.

Kirk

[mandozilla]

Kirk you ought to do a search for threads covering left hand technique. There are quite a few of them.

In them, there's pretty much a consensus on the proper way to hold the neck so your hand will be tension free. Tension can lead to pain where you described it.

In any case it's important not to tense up your left hand either when playing lead or when chording rhythm. Besides helping to reduce pain, this will also improve you speed and accuracy.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I only ever get sore finger tips when i play.Kirk,it could be that maybe you're pressing too hard on the back of the Mandolin neck when you're playing ?. I find that sometimes i press too hard & have to relax my left hand or else i WOULD get some pain. I've had to teach myself not to wrap my left thumb around the Mandolin neck as i do on my Banjo & in my effort to do just that,i overdo the thumb on the neck bit,
Saska

[kirkwhitehead]

Thanks guys I will search left hand technique. I hope it is that simple.

Kirk

[kirkwhitehead]

So a quick youtube of chris thile revealed that his thumb is either straight up or center of the back of teh neck, depending. and when I play like that that puts my wrist in a straight position not bent like it was with my thumb laying on the neck pointed at the headstock. very cool. now I have one more thing to work on!

is the Thile instructional DVD any good? maybe I should ask if a novice player will get much from it or is it geared to advanced players?

kirk

kirk

[chordbanger]

I gave up one of my hobbies, crotcheting, because I feared I was getting arthritis in my left hand, because I had some pain going down my second finger. I wasn't going to give up music, so no more making afghans. I have normal pain today in my pinky finger which is getting calloused. I am learning a Tango on guitar, which requires a lot of use of my pinky. I am resting my pinky today, because I practiced for hours and hours yesterday, and it's very sore.

[Mike Bunting]

http://www.tothestage.com/MediaDetail.Page?MediaId=352
Take heed.

[kirksdad]

My left hand doesnt hurt much, but my head does from banging it on the table trying to learn those durn Bush licks..........

[Bob Borzelleri]

Not until last night when I was chopping up an onion for the potato corn chowder. There's something about that rule about keeping personal flesh higher than the level of the cutting edge of a chopping knife that suddenly makes a lot of sense. No serious damage, but the band aid near the end of my index finger is creating quite a buzz.

[f5loar]

You might try a low action set up. Lower action with lighter guage strings can help. Also look into those radius fingerboards. How about those magnetic braclets?
Not sure they work but sports guys use them especially golfers. Suppose to help tensions in hand/arm.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Kirk - The Chris Thile DVD was the first i bought when i started out,not because i thought that i'd EVER be as good as him,but just for the sheer inspration. It is a good video & he does give plenty of tips that are worth knowing.Having said that,ALL the tuition DVD's that i have are worth while in some respect or other.My personal favourite,is the one by Herschel Sizemore (& Alan Bibey) "In His Own Style". I like it because of the 'accessibility' of the music.There seems to be something for all levels (other than a rank beginer). Herschel gets all his points across & the TAB notation is worth having even if it's just for his Mandolin classic "Rebecca" - i just had to learn that one ,
Saska

[P A Frederick]

Kirk, Though all of these suggestions are very good ones, I think a lot of your problem is due to neck shape. I have an Austin F model with a neck a lot like that of many other cheaper mandolins like "the Loar." They are built with a C shaped neck like a guitar, but it doesn't work on such a small instrument. My hand hurts a lot when I play my Austin, but never when I play an instrument with a "rounded V" shape neck (similar to Gibson). I should have bought something with this profile, but now I'm stuck with mine until I can afford to buy a new one.

Mine is directly attributed to neck shape. I've played different mandolins for hours and never had a pain, its just the way my hand has to hit this profile. My suggestion? Look for a better mandolin. If I can't afford a good USA made in a couple months, I'm going with an Eastman, they have V shaped necks.

Good luck,

Paul

[Jim]

Kirk just a suggestion until you get that new mandolin. If you play with a strap shorten it and if you play sitting down get something under your left foot( something bigger if you already do that) I think you need to get the neck up a little higher in relation to your body to rotate your wrist down some so your thumb is a little more behind the neck. Just a guess. What ever new mandolin you get spend some time on it before you buy to be sure the ergonomics are correct.

[earthsave]

I used to have the Gorilla Grip. It was mainly due to trying to play too fast. Our band has always played at breakneck speeds, and I still struggle sometimes, but correct technique is a big help. My action is higher than most too. I only cramp up when I havent played in a while and we do more than an hour set.

Tons of good info on here and the web in general.

Good technique and if it hurts, let up a little in grip and time, meaning take a day off and let you muscles recoup.

[kirkwhitehead]

I found an old post w/ a video of mike marshall showing holding and such. it is good info and I have been keeping a small gap between the neck and thumb/index finger joint.
Thanks for all the help.
kirk

[barney 59]

I have had for a while now a progessive arthritic condition that affects the base of my thumbs. When the famous surgeon explained how it wouldn't be him doing the actual operation due to the fact that he gave up surgery because of arthritis I knew then I was screwed. You should be X-rayed to determine what you may or not be dealing with. It could just be a strain that will heal on it's own or it could be really so many things that a discussion here about what you may or may not have or it cause is pointless. I can give you a list of the thousand different things that I have thought of as possible causes of mine if you like. My problems are not so much with my left hand. I can play through it and after a warm up I'm ok. My problem affects holding the pick. Even if I get past the pain there is a lack of strength and control. It is going to be there forever which I hope that yours is not but you have to make the best of these things if they are.There are some tricks that I have found that help me. Multimimeral suppliments,glucosamine, aspirin--- I work with tools all day and don't have the luxury of not but it I did I'm sure it would help to find another line of work. I have found a trick that has helped me more than anything. When I'm having a bad time, often weather related, I can tape a tennis ball into the palm of my hand before I go to sleep. This is a natural relaxed state and really helps alot. I also found that with doing that that my hand seems to have trained itself to go to that relaxed state on it's own more readily at other times. Good luck with that and as I said to my business partner "Why don't you go have a doctor check that out?" ...a little while before he died!