Hide Glue problem and tuner replacement

**guitarmaker1217** · Feb-03-2009, 9:54am

I'm a guitar builder but have started to do some work on Mandolins- I bought an old no name Bowl Back that I repaired and now playing and currently working on model 20 Weymann. Anyway I decided to use hide glue to fix braces on the Weymann and in testing the hide glue on scrap wood it does not adhere to both pieces of wood. I have a glue pot heated t0 140 degrees etc. and have tried it three times to no avail. Anyone out have experience with hide glue? Also is it possible to find tuner replacements for the Weymann tuners that are inset into the headstock? To use replacement tuners like Schallers I would have to fill in the recess of headstock which would ruin the collectors value. If you know of a source of replacement tuners for old Mandolins please let me know. thanks, Jack

**resophonic** · Feb-03-2009, 11:40am

If the hide glue gels before your clamped up, the joint will probably fail. If you apply the hot glue to cold parts, it will gel very quickly. Try heating the wood parts your gluing to get more clamping time. I use red restaurant lights or a blow dryer to warm things up first, the glue gels around 95 degrees. You might want to read up on hide glue, do a little experimenting and save yourself some frustration when you go to install the braces on your Weymann.

Can't help you with the tuners. Post an add in the Cafe in the wanted adds and watch Ebay. If it's missing buttons, you can fix that.

**Joel Thomas** · Feb-03-2009, 11:43am

Can you explain what you mean by "doesn't adhere to both pieces of wood"? How is the joint failing?

**testore** · Feb-03-2009, 11:51am

Some hide glue must have it's fats removed. Let air get to the mixture while it's cooking. Peel the skin from the top of the glue. I do this twice sometimes. The joint will work fine once you do this step. Mohawk finishing makes a fine hide glue that doesn't require this step.

**guitarmaker1217** · Feb-04-2009, 9:27am

The glue adheres to one piece of wood when I pull the two pieces apart. To illustrate there is glue left on piece and the other piece is clean. I have tested the hide glue on 3 test pieces and they all failed. I am trying another brand of hide glue and a thinner mixture to see if that will solve the problem

**guitarmaker1217** · Feb-04-2009, 9:28am

Thanks for the advice. I will give it a try.

**Rick Turner** · Feb-04-2009, 9:45am

Sounds like you're not working fast enough and the glue is gelling before you get the joint together. Maybe your parts are too cold. Maybe the glue is too thick; it should be like warm maple syrup...mmmmm....good...

**Forrest Mandolins** · Feb-04-2009, 1:52pm

How long has your glue been reconstituted? I get the best results with freshly re-hydrated glue.

**Michael Lewis** · Feb-05-2009, 12:17am

Warm both gluing surfaces and apply glue to BOTH surfaces. Get it together and clamped and DON'T DISTURB THE JOINT. Then you can gently clean up any spills and squeeze out with warm water and a brush.

**HoGo** · Feb-05-2009, 12:59am

Look for instruction on frets.com. It's very good info.
What I see could be also failure due to surface contamination of one piece. Were the surfaces fresh and smooth (preferably planed or scraped)?
Also you need to clamp the joint within seconds from application of glue if you didn't heat the pieces. Typically you should rub them together in hands till the glue grabs and then immediately apply clamp(s) without releasing pressure. Does it sound like you need third hand? Well, you need to learn how to work with clamp with one hand in some situations.

**bryce** · Feb-05-2009, 6:05am

In saw a set of the tuners you are looking for somewhere online the other day. I'll try and let you know where. Almost bought them myself. David

**desaljs** · Feb-05-2009, 6:48am

In the current issue of Acoustic Guitar, there is an article by Frank Ford (the frets.com guy) about hide glue. Check it out for some good ideas.

**bryce** · Feb-05-2009, 7:39am

Jack, Howdy. I found the tuners I saw the other day. Here they are.
http://www.banjohangout.org/classifi...l.asp?cid=8163

**guitarmaker1217** · Feb-11-2009, 9:12am

Thanks very much/ appreciate your help. I am going to rebuild the old tuners I have that are similar. Jack

**guitarmaker1217** · Feb-11-2009, 9:13am

Figured out my problem. The hide glue mix was too thick and you guys were right about warming up the wood. You have to be quick to work with this stuff. Thanks, Jack