Chris Thile on Mark O'Connor's retrospective

**Baron Collins-Hill** · Jul-24-2004, 12:26pm

Thile is amazing in every song he plays, although these are my favorites:

fishermans hornpipe - into the cauldron

club gross - not all who wander are lost

panhandle rag - leading off

And most of all... in concert! (gotta love those socks)

anyone seen "bluegrass journey"

**mandomick** · Jul-24-2004, 8:59pm

Seems like all that's missing in this thread is the often heard guitar player's quote....."I can do that"

**onlyagibsonisgoodenuff** · Jul-24-2004, 9:35pm

Originally Posted by (mandomick @ July 24 2004, 21:59)

Seems like all that's missing in this thread is the often heard guitar player's quote....."I can do that"

Huh?

**craigtoo** · Jul-26-2004, 8:00am

Although I agree with the comments regarding Thile's "scientific approach" to music,
I still love listening to his music. Did anyone ever get the impression when figuring out his tunes that he sometimes wrote tunes to develop a particular skill? Like the cross picking patterns in "Ode.." or "Song for a Young Queen"... It seems he was working on some really hard cross picking pattern and made a neat tune out of it.

One other thing about his playing that I try to emulate is his Tone. For instance, the opening to "The Lighthouse" song....has just incredible clean picking. In my opinion, he's got most people beat in the "clean sound" department.

my 2 cents..
craig

**mandoanon** · Jul-26-2004, 9:30am

At Rockygrass last night, I was fortunate enough to listen to Chris and Bryan Sutton join Mark O'Connor and his trio. If listening to that set you did not hear emotion, you must be catatonic.

**jim_n_virginia** · Jul-26-2004, 10:10am

Originally Posted by (Steve L @ July 24 2004, 08:24)

Originally Posted by (sandcastlefaith @ July 23 2004, 20:26)

Chris Thile's playing requires a highly developed and trained musical ear, and a great understanding of music theory to even comprehend his improvisation and the detail and perfection of his compositions. #...no one that is knowledgable about the matter would disagree with me when I say Thile is one of the, if the greatest musician of his generation.

Thile is a young and still developing musician whose well deserved reputation is based on his unquestionable command of the mandolin. #From the little I've heard however, I think if he were expressing essentially the same musical content on, for instance the guitar, no one would pay too much attention. #I think Sandcastlefaith's comments would be more applicable to someone of the stature of John Coltrane or Duke Ellington. #And I mean no disrespect to Sandcastle or Mr. Thile when I say that, in my opinion, he's not there yet.

Thile's doing good things, #making lots of people happy and deserves his success, but I think this level of hyperbole is a bit much.

Man I saw Nickle Creek in Norfolk earlier this years and I'm tellin you he is "THERE"

That boy can flat out play!

I am 46 years old. Been playing for 30 years. Been to probably hundreds of concerts.

The Nickle Creek concert was up there in the top five of any concert I have ever seen in my life. It was THAT good!

I was 10 feet away from Thile playing and all I could do was stand there slack jawed in awe of his ability.

That boy is still growing as a musician. He will without a doubt be one of the greatest mandolin players of our time, heck in my book he already is!

I'm telling you don't judge this kid on CD's alone, go see him in concert if you can.

**Peakbagr** · Jul-26-2004, 10:13am

A lot of folks think Mark O'Connor was a once in a generation phenomenon. Even if you dismiss Chris Thile's obvious talents, the fact the M.O.C invited him to play on his retrospective says a lot about what O'Connor feels about him.

IMHO, lots of the negative comments about Chris Thile #come from folks who are much more comfortable with musicians with string ties, matching sharkskin suits, and white patent leather boots and belts.

**beanbass** · Jul-26-2004, 11:23am

It seems to me that the majority of people who flame Thile are the ones that are threatened by him and his advanced abilities. Alot of guys don't like anyone who doesn't have that Bill Monroe ticka-ticka-ticka sound. The boy's a genius.

**Christine W** · Jul-26-2004, 11:23am

-Here we go again
-These arguements or should I say "opinions" #always seem funny to me. #
- The man is awesome in every aspect of playing and whether someone chooses to listen to #him or not is thier own purogative. No flaming is needed.
- I wonder if Thile or whoever is being slammed at the moment ever reads these posts....I wonder if they care....if it hurts thier feelings.....it just makes me sad to hear some of the negative comments some people make, they come across as jealousy (it may not be but it seems that way).

Let's all stay supportive and postive.

P.S My mom always told me if you don't have anything nice to say...

**sandcastlefaith** · Jul-26-2004, 4:55pm

Yes, Chris has incredible tone, and his crosspicking patterns drive me insane! And seeing him live is indeed quite an experience, he plays that mandolin like he's Jimi Hendrix on the stage, and you can just tell the he's having so much fun when he's up there. I just hope I can one day be that expressive with my music, if not as talented all together.

**mandopete** · Jul-27-2004, 8:53am

My 2 cents......

I have found that listening to a recording such as Not All Who Wander Are Lost is very demanding. #It took me four or five spins to start to really appreciate what the compositions and playing were about. #This might account for the fact that some people don't go back and listen again or that they may see a lack of emotion in the playing.

Bluegrass music is very emotional and the parts of jazz and rock that I enjoy are emotional as well. #I find it kind of a turn off to hear music that is too technical, like Bach for instance. #That doesn't mean it isn't good or even emotional, it just takes more out of the listener to get there.

**patsites** · Jul-27-2004, 9:28am

I'll probably get hammered for this, but.....for all you Thile hater's...

What needs to be said about the Rockygrass show with Mark O' and Sutton is that these were the loudest cheers and the biggest crowd response of the entire weekend. Chris received huge applause after most every solo in the MIDDLE OF EACH SONG! Most of the audience even stood up after a couple of songs, and this is unheard of at Rockygrass, especailly for an afternoon show! Anyone who performs with MOC is at the absolute top of their craft, it was absolutely insane how expressive and clean Thile was with his solo's and at absolutely break-neck speeds. I cannot say I've seen another mandolin player capable of playing that intensely and emotional with Mark, not the Dawg, not Sam Bush, not Reischman, not Steffey, maybe Mike Marshall. If you've seen any of these other people perform with Mark, they are working so hard, and it shows on stage. With Thile, it looks effortless and he is having so much fun when he plays.

Thile may not be the best "bluegrass" or "monroe-style" player, because he plays so complicted at times, but for my money, he is an absolute stud! And lets face it, someone of his caliber is going to get bored real quick with fiddle tunes and 3 chord bluegrass songs, so if he over-complicates them, so be it, at least he can overcomplicate if he wants too.

If Sam Bush and David Grisman call him the greatest player of our generation, I have say they probably have the best credentials of anyone to make that call.

**Hondo** · Jul-27-2004, 9:37am

mandopete,

This is interesting. For most of my 27 year+ music playing days, I've been a three-chord, bang on the guitar kinda guy, but in the past five years or so, I've become enamored with more "intricate" music. I enjoy listening to the way a piece is put together, like, for instance, in an Edgar Meyer composition, the way the bowed double bass weaves around the mandolin melody, and in turn, the mandolin plays off the double bass. I find it fascinating, probably all the more so because I can't fathom how it's done. The music's like a puzzle, and I keep finding new pieces to place in it. But what I truly find amazing is that I have a genuine, emotional response to it; it pulls at me. Dunno why, but there it is. What's funny is if you'd told me six years ago that I'd not only be listening to this music, but that I'd enjoy it, I would've said you're off your gourd.

**Rod Freeland** · Jul-27-2004, 11:03am

I like Edgar Meyer's characterization of Chris Thile: "a force of nature with a flatpick." (supposedly from the Chicago Tribune, but I saw it at http://www.performances.org/perform....eID=399 ) Also, Edgar Meyer is no slouch on the string bass!

**Hondo** · Jul-27-2004, 11:28am

RodF,

Yep, Edgar's no slouch. He's the most relaxed performer I've ever seen. Just seems to drape himself around the bass. Not bad on the piano, too.

**mandomiss** · Jul-27-2004, 1:50pm

I also had the great privelage of seeing Chris Thile, Bryan Sutton, and the Hot Swing Trio at Rockygrass and all I can say is WOW. By the way, what was the name of that awesome caprice that Mark and Chris played?

**SteveW** · Jul-27-2004, 2:48pm

And I don't think it remiss to mention that it is because Thile is a young, exciting, charismatic player that he has attracted so many people, especially young people, to the mandolin. My teacher (a bluegrass player of long standing) has a slew of mandolin students now, and new ones signing up for lessons on a regular basis. One day I jokingly said it was all Chris Thile's fault, and he, not jokingly, said yes.

Plus, to laud Thile's playing as exceptional, even to call him the best of his (or our) generation, is not to diminish the abilities of other players in various genres and generations. Music is not a zero-sum game.

Steve

**grandmainger** · Jul-28-2004, 3:24am

Originally Posted by

Thile is a young, exciting, charismatic player that he has attracted so many people, especially young people, to the mandolin.

Yup! And I'm one of them

**mandopete** · Jul-28-2004, 8:04am

Originally Posted by (Hondo @ July 27 2004, 07:37)

The music's like a puzzle, and I keep finding new pieces to place in it.

That's it! #That is why it takes several "listens" to take it all in. #I find that I like a balance of raw, emotional, easy to understand type music as well as these more intricate forms. #Hell, who likes to eat the same old sandwich all the time?

For all of the talk about Chris Thile as a player, there has not been much commentary on his songwriting. #I'm not a big fan of Nickel Creek, I find the lyrics leave me a bit cold. #I have also found that the band material seems to lack the melodic focus that Chris puts into his solo material. #I actually fell asleep at one point at their show a couple years ago

Any comments on his songwriting?

**sandcastlefaith** · Jul-28-2004, 8:42am

I think he is an incredible songwriter. Maybe not quite the lyricist that some of the more popular singer/songwriters are, but he writes music that is incredibly complicated as far as melodies and harmonies, yet is not hard to follow for the average ear. Just the fact that he studied under Edgar Meyer tells you something.

Nate

**mcmando** · Jul-28-2004, 8:53am

Isn't it great for the mandolin world that we have a young artist who inspires this much passionate discourse? Whether you believe he's the best mando player/musician/songwriter in our generation or not, it bodes well for our beloved instrument that he is drawing so many, and with such varied backgrounds and musical tastes. How many more awesomely talented mandolin players picking bluegrass standards in the traditional style do we need?

**mandoanon** · Jul-28-2004, 9:39am

Hey Mandomiss - That song Mark and Chris played was Caprice No. 4 in D Major. It is on the 30 Year Retrospective CD. You can also go to Mark O'Connor's website and download the sheet music - if you are so inclined.

**adgefan** · Jul-28-2004, 3:15pm

Originally Posted by (mandopete @ July 28 2004, 09:04)

For all of the talk about Chris Thile as a player, there has not been much commentary on his songwriting. #I'm not a big fan of Nickel Creek, I find the lyrics leave me a bit cold. #I have also found that the band material seems to lack the melodic focus that Chris puts into his solo material. #I actually fell asleep at one point at their show a couple years ago

Any comments on his songwriting?

In Nickel Creek Sean is definitely the best "song" writer (in my opinion). He has a wonderful way with melody that is very similar to Elliot Smith whose music I love.

But Chris is definitely the best at "tune" writing. I've already mentioned how much I love the complexity and intricacy of Raining At Sunset. There's also a bit in Eureka! where it sounds like the banjo and mando are having a conversation, then all of a sudden the fiddle pops up and it turns into a soaring fiddle tune. And as for Wolfcreek Pass? Amazing. If Bach had written bluegrass that is how it would have sounded

So yeah, for me his songwriting (or rather instrumental writing) is top class. He does write good songs too, Lighthouse, Green and Gray, Moonfleet Beach being a few of my favourites. #

And I'm also one of those people who only plays mando because Chris made me do it, so to speak. I know of many people who have got into playing all the bluegrass instruments, not just mando, because of his (or Nickel Creek's) influence.

**rhetoric** · Jul-29-2004, 11:01pm

QUOTE: His technique is absolutely flawless. That said, on those occasions when he plays bluegrass (or some variation thereof) his flawless technique becomes IMHO a detrement. He is so smooth and clean that there doesn't seem to be any emotion or feeling in his playing.

Awesome logic! "If you want to be a good mandolin player, you need to make mistakes." Based on this thinking I am the best mandolin player on the planet! Based on this thinking I play with boatloads of raw emotion!

Maybe Chris Thile isn't God, but he plays mandolin better than most people and when I hear guys on this website complaining about his musicianship, I can't help but think about the 8th grade school-girls criticising the devestatingly beautiful new girl because her teeth are too straight. Or the Prince telling Mozart, "Too many notes!"

You're right -- you don't have to like Thile, but you've got to do better than, "He plays too cleanly."

**davestem** · Jul-30-2004, 6:40am

I like Chris' songwriting pretty well (on "Lighthouse" and "Green and Grey" as mentioned above), but I do believe his ability with lyrics are a relative weakness. #Though he is already a better lyricist than many popular musicians (Steve Miller, Ron Block, and Susan Tedeschi come to mind, for various reasons), I think he recognizes that there is an artistry to crafting vocal songs that requires work in the same way instrumental mastery does. #It encourages me to hear that Nickel Creek is concentrating on vocal songs. #As they learn more about the lyricist's craft, it may be that we will soon be treated to songs that combine the best of lyrical and instrumental artistry. #I have high hopes for their future as a "vocal" band.