Chris Thile on Mark O'Connor's retrospective

**Kirk Albrecht** · Jul-23-2004, 9:08am

I got a copy of Mark O'Connor's 30-year retrospective double live CD last week, and it is causing major brain drain at work as I try to listen and be productive at the same time. Maybe I should take it home! The musicianship is of the highest caliber, and Chris Thile's playing is out of this world.

I know that David Grisman, Sam Bush, and Mike Marshall have pushed the boundaries of mandolin virtuosity, but is anyone doing anything remotely like what Chris Thile can do with those 8 strings? When he gets going, he is so fast, clean, yet within the music it is scary. I am still sad that Nickel Creek has decided to forgo most instrumentals (their strength, individually and collectively for my taste) for often lackluster vocal songs (but that's another thread, and I don't want to venture into the often emotion-charged morass of that theme!), but I am happy that Chris continues to find outlets to reveal the depth - and growing understanding - of a gifted virtuoso. This guys just blows me away when I hear him play.

**grandmainger** · Jul-23-2004, 9:11am

Have you seen the WoodSongs Archive with Chris? The show with him and Mike Marshall is fabulous stuff.

**Tom C** · Jul-23-2004, 9:20am

<span style='color:red'>Chris is a feak of nature. If we are lucky, maybe only one new player a generation rises to that capability. Ever hear that recording from the 2000 IBMA? Great googlymoogly!</span>

**John Zimm** · Jul-23-2004, 9:45am

Yeah, Thile is the greatest. I am of the humble opinion that he can do anything he wants to on the mandolin. I share your feelings Kirkola about Nickel Creek's vocal songs-they need a singer or two in the band. Thile's playing though is top shelf. If only I had worked harder as a younger man...

-John.

**Kirk Albrecht** · Jul-23-2004, 3:34pm

John -

Don't feel too bad - have you seen Chris' hands? Those long think fingers give him great stretch. I have short, stubby ones. Why is it that I love stringed instruments like guitars and mandos?

I honestly don't think that any amount of practice would put me close to him - though the more I play, the better I do sound.

Kirk

**John Flynn** · Jul-23-2004, 3:45pm

No on can argue about Thile's technical ability on the instrument. He is, as someone said, "a freak of nature" in that respect, perhaps the best there is. Just MHO, but unfortuately I have yet to hear him play anything that is all that interesting in a purely musical sense. He reminds me a bit of the first popular incarnation of Eddie Van Halen as a rock guitarist. He was a technical wizard who needed to slow down and make it more about quality than quantity.

**johnwalser** · Jul-23-2004, 4:27pm

Absolutely true story.

Last year at Handford, CA, Chris Thile asked for my advice!!!! He was playing wiffle ball at the park across the street, with Sean, before the Nickel Creek concert. Sean hit a ball and Chris asked me if it was foul or fair. I told him it was a foul!!!
Now he stopped short of asking me any highly technical mandolin questions, but it's a start.
John

**Kirk Albrecht** · Jul-23-2004, 4:39pm

Mando Johnny - I agree that sometimes he plays with too much sizzle, but I am impressed with his chops on "Not All Who Wanter Are Lost". He shows great sophisticaton in a variety of styles, and he's not always flashy, though when he is, boy - look out!

His Woodsongs shows with Mike Marshall and Bryan Sutton are both excellent.

**grandmainger** · Jul-23-2004, 4:49pm

I think the CD with Mike Marshall (into the cauldron) is a good demonstration of what he can do in a range of different styles, including classical. I'm not sure I picture what Mando Johnny means by "purely musical sense" though...
Still, a truly fabulous CD...

**John Flynn** · Jul-23-2004, 5:15pm

OK, I'll simplify it. As good as Thile is technically, I find it very dissappointing that I have never heard him do anything I would listen to a second time. I marvel over his technical acrobatics like everyone else. Yes, I even marvel at his range of musical styles like everyone else does. But everything I have heard him do, I listen to once and I am done. I would like to find it interesting, but I just don't. There are mando players I can listen to over and over, but he is not one of them.

**onlyagibsonisgoodenuff** · Jul-23-2004, 6:21pm

Originally Posted by (jflynnstl @ July 23 2004, 18:15)

There are mando players I can listen to over and over, but he is not one of them.

You know, I never really thought about it that way, but I'd have to say I concur with this statement. I'm not really trying to start anything, but I know of all the mando players in my CD collection, I rarely listen to Chris Thile. I think to my ear, John Reischman is pretty darn cool, though.

**Kirk Albrecht** · Jul-23-2004, 6:35pm

Without a doubt, as my teenage sons would say, John Reischmsn is the bomb. Though personally I can listen to Chris Thile (and john Reischman for that matter) all day long.

**sandcastlefaith** · Jul-23-2004, 7:26pm

In my opinion, Chris Thile's playing requires a highly developed and trained musical ear, and a great understanding of music theory to even comprehend his improvisation and the detail and perfection of his compositions. My theory teacher and I have studied very closely many of his compositions, and they follow extremely advanced mathematical patterns, comparable only to Bach and perhaps Beethoven. To many people, his music might seem redundant, and uninteresting, but regardless of your personal opinions on his music, no one that is knowledgable about the matter would disagree with me when I say Thile is one of the, if the greatest musician of his generation.

**John Flynn** · Jul-23-2004, 8:10pm

Originally Posted by

In my opinion, Chris Thile's playing requires a highly developed and trained musical ear, and a great understanding of music theory to even comprehend his improvisation and the detail and perfection of his compositions. #My theory teacher and I have studied very closely many of his compositions, and they follow extremely advanced mathematical patterns, comparable only to Bach and perhaps Beethoven. #To many people, his music might seem redundant, and uninteresting, but regardless of your personal opinions on his music, no one that is knowledgable about the matter would disagree with me when I say Thile is one of the, if the greatest musician of his generation. - sandcastlefaith

Yeah, now that you mention it, when I am at the opera or the symphony or talking to my theory mentor, Thile's name comes up all the time...not! If you like Thile, fine, I agree, I admire him too. But it is laughable to try to justify your opinion based on the fact that you know a little theory. This is a musical instrument site, for cryin' out loud! There are a lot of people on this site who know a fair bit of theory and have been around a lot different kinds of music for many years. If you think you can talk down to people here based on your having taken some music lessons, you are mistaken.

Besides, music is an art, not a science. Really good music does not require a knowledge of theory or a trained ear to appreciate. Do you need a degree in literature to appreciate a good book? You like Thile, but I don't care so much for him. That's life. Cope with it.

**Greg H.** · Jul-23-2004, 9:35pm

Just to fan the flames, my thinking on Chris Thile is:

As a classical or jazz mandolinist he's little short of brilliant. His technique is absolutely flawless. That said, on those occasions when he plays bluegrass (or some variation thereof) his flawless technique becomes IMHO a detrement. He is so smooth and clean that there doesn't seem to be any emotion or feeling in his playing. If you listen to Bush, Grisman, Steffey, Reischman (or the original source, Monroe) there is a more tangable degree of feeling in their playing. None of them will ever show the degree of technical accuracy of Thile but, for me at least, their seems that more is being expressed in their playing. And for me, a large part of BG and OT music is in the expression.

Of course, that hasn't kept 'Not All Who Wander. . .' from living in my truck's CD player for weeks at a time.

**Patrick Gunning** · Jul-23-2004, 11:36pm

I too have noticed the emotional flatline you are speaking of in Thile's playing Greg. I recently was listening This Side and Tim O'brien's Two Journeys, both of which have versions of the song The House Carpenter (on tim's it is called Demon Lover) on them. Listening to Tim O'brien's emotionally rich, constantly varied, brilliant arrangement of that song, and then listening to Nickel Creek's flatline arrangement of the song - it was just a letdown. That is the difference between technical wizards like Thile and people like Tim O'brien and Darrell Scott whose emotions just jump out at you in songs, IMHO. Of course, that didn't stop me from spending some quality time with the Amazing Slow Downer to figure out Ode to a Butterfly. I just once would like to hear a Thile song and know that he felt something while he was playing it (though, in fairness, I haven't heard Thile's newest album, maybe it will change my mind).

**gdae85** · Jul-24-2004, 12:46am

Have you noticed that CHRIS IS LEFTY?

**grandmainger** · Jul-24-2004, 1:31am

Originally Posted by

music is an art, not a science. Really good music does not require a knowledge of theory or a trained ear to appreciate.

This is very true. I played 'Ode to a butterfly' once to my girlfirend's sister. Probably the first time she heard a mandolin.
About an hour later, she was humming it in the kitchen.
I have found this true (for me at least) for many songs by Chris Thile, where I instantly like them, which IMO is good enough to qualify as top notch art. By the way, I'm not implying that music is art only if one can like it instantly! Some has to grow on you.

On a slightly different style, the same phenomenon (ie instant love) happened with 'Buffalo Nickel' & 'When Joy Kills Sorrow' from Bela Fleck (

Eeeck! Banjo !

#), on 'The Bluegrass Sessions'. Perhaps because his banjo playing is so mandolin-like

Germain

**grandmainger** · Jul-24-2004, 1:34am

Originally Posted by

Have you noticed that CHRIS IS LEFTY?

Had not noticed, but using your "main" hand to fret, rather than to pick makes more sense I reckon. The hand you write with is much stronger, and much more precise... Maybe that's the secret

**sandcastlefaith** · Jul-24-2004, 6:40am

Mando Johnny - I did not mean to offend anyone, and I also didn't mean to make it seem that I had a "Holier than thou" attitude about the matter. In fact, I'm sure that the average musician on this site probably knows more than I am. I was simply using the fact that I take music theory to say that my teacher and I studied a lot of Chris' work. Maybe you can cut me some slack and give me the benefit of the doubt that my post wasn't meant as a direct insult to you. I was only trying to lend my insight.

**sandcastlefaith** · Jul-24-2004, 6:45am

By the way, in this picture of Thile and Sam Bush, they both appear to be playing right handed . . . ? #

Thile and Bush

**Atlanta Mando Mike** · Jul-24-2004, 7:06am

It is easy to forgrt Chris thile is still a very young man and has lots of time to mature emotionally. many players calm down, mature, and in general go through different phases in their playing. I'm real interested to hear how Chris plays when he is 35 or 40.

**Atlanta Mando Mike** · Jul-24-2004, 7:09am

And yes, to the original post, his playing on O'conners album is breathtaking. It seems impossible to be that clean and precise on a live album. it blows my mind. I don't really like the album as a whole, but chris is awe inspiring on it.

**Steve L** · Jul-24-2004, 7:24am

Originally Posted by (sandcastlefaith @ July 23 2004, 20:26)

Chris Thile's playing requires a highly developed and trained musical ear, and a great understanding of music theory to even comprehend his improvisation and the detail and perfection of his compositions. #...no one that is knowledgable about the matter would disagree with me when I say Thile is one of the, if the greatest musician of his generation.

Thile is a young and still developing musician whose well deserved reputation is based on his unquestionable command of the mandolin. #From the little I've heard however, I think if he were expressing essentially the same musical content on, for instance the guitar, no one would pay too much attention. #I think Sandcastlefaith's comments would be more applicable to someone of the stature of John Coltrane or Duke Ellington. #And I mean no disrespect to Sandcastle or Mr. Thile when I say that, in my opinion, he's not there yet.

Thile's doing good things, #making lots of people happy and deserves his success, but I think this level of hyperbole is a bit much.

**adgefan** · Jul-24-2004, 12:00pm

Originally Posted by (Steve L @ July 24 2004, 08:24)

Thile is a young and still developing musician whose well deserved reputation is based on his unquestionable command of the mandolin. #From the little I've heard however, I think if he were expressing essentially the same musical content on, for instance the guitar, no one would pay too much attention.

I don't think that is completely fair. The attraction of Chris Thile to me is not just his mandolin playing but the whole composition and complexity of his music.

Take Raining At Sunset for example, seeing as most regard it as his best work so far. The interactions between the mando, guitar, fiddle and dobro on that tune are incredible. Stuart Duncan's break about half way through kills me everytime I hear it, it is just sublime. I have heard that tune hundreds of times, yet I never tire of it, and still hear new things in it even now.

It takes someone very intelligent indeed to compose something so intricate (I won't go as far as genius because he's still very young and can only get better).

I fully appreciate the opinion that his music is emotionally flat and too techinically perfect (I feel the same way about much of his first album), but to me the tracks on Not All Who Wander Are Lost and Stealing Second just ooze emotion, and that emotion is joy.

From the interviews I have seen with Chris, he has no reason to be writing songs about sadness, sorrow or pain. He has lived an extremely successful, happy life so far and in my opinion that comes across effortlessly in his music.

(And by the way, I know very little about music theory but to me Thile writes the best music I have ever heard...) #