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Thread: Same chord?

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    18 Wheels--8 Strings gregjones's Avatar
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    I Googled up the chords to a song and one was an A7. On another site everything was the same, except they had A/G#.

    Isn't that the same?
    Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    G# is the major 7th of the A scale. A/G# would be an AMaj7, not an A7, because a 7th chord really means flatted 7th (G in the case of A.) This type of chord is often used as a passing chord as in A A/G# F#m D...
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    When a chord is symbolized as _/_, it means that they want the note below the slash to be in the bass, usually because of descending or ascending bass pattern in the harmony of the chords.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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    18 Wheels--8 Strings gregjones's Avatar
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    OK-----that has confused me the A7 vs. Amaj7. Guitar tab for popular music almost always has *7, then I go to my little mando chord chart and to figure out the fingering for the voicing I want and stumble with the maj7 stuff.

    Yeah, it's a passing note. Your guess is very close---------A A7 F#M7 E D.

    Thanks again, Jim.
    Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    What song are you working on?
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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    18 Wheels--8 Strings gregjones's Avatar
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    One of those little popular mandolin ditties from the sixties-----"The Weight" by The Band.

    Nothing like trying to reinvent the wheel, huh?
    Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.

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    Part-time picker HddnKat's Avatar
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    Love 'The Weight' - That one would definately be an A7, not an Amaj7 - the bass walkdown was the major riff of the whole song
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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Try this. Slide up to the 7th fret of the 3rd string and play:

    X-7-0-0/X-6-0-0/X-4-0-0/X-2-0-0/ 2-0-0-2

    Sounds really cool while the guitar and bass do the walk down.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (HddnKat @ Sep. 08 2008, 21:16)
    Love 'The Weight' - That one would definately be an A7, not an Amaj7 - the bass walkdown was the major riff of the whole song
    No, it would be the G# in the bass. This is for the opening walk down. This is definitely NOT an A7.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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    once upon a time, drmole Joel Spaulding's Avatar
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    But the walkdown hits the G#, not the G making AMaj7. Haven't heard the song in a bit, but pretty sure the first interval is a half step A to G#.

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    You are correct dr.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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    once upon a time, drmole Joel Spaulding's Avatar
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    Whoops - JB on the spot! Guess I need some

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    18 Wheels--8 Strings gregjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (jbmando @ Sep. 08 2008, 21:21)
    Try this. Slide up to the 7th fret of the 3rd string and play:

    X-7-0-0/X-6-0-0/X-4-0-0/X-2-0-0/ 2-0-0-2

    Sounds really cool while the guitar and bass do the walk down.
    Dang----------I was thinking about "Friend of the Devil" and that's a very good start at ideas on it.

    And the hits keep on rollin'!!!

    I came from Bakersfield up to Santa Nella this afternoon and I ALWAYS play "Friend of the Devil" as I roll through the canyon to Gilroy. It just seems like the song was wrote for that ride. Screw the cost of fuel---I use all 600HP and fly.

    Well, you know how it goes-----just a minute to whack on the mando before heading to Frisco in the wee AM hours to beat traffic. Then I go to Folsom Prison---that's always a gas.

    Thanks.
    Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.

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    18 Wheels--8 Strings gregjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (HddnKat @ Sep. 08 2008, 21:16)
    Love 'The Weight'
    It's one of those songs that leaves me wondering what to do. Of course, I want a nice mandolin but am wondering about splitting the cost between both a "decent" mandola and mandolin.

    Well, I should have either left Thursday instead of Friday or be in Arizona tonight-----this old fella has to get a nap.

    There'll be more time to practice between here and Seattle.
    Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.

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    Registered User jgarrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    Sorry to resurrect such an old post but I wanted to ask Jim Broyles if he's the same person that posted this file on sound cloud: http://soundcloud.com/jwbroyles/the-weight-mandolin? If so would you be willing to share the tabs on the intro for the Weight? I've been working on it for a while but I'm not very good at playing by ear.

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    Yes, it is I. I don't have a tab handy, so let me listen to what I did and I'll either post a video (preferred) or tab it out.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

  17. #17
    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    Here ya go. Pretty mediocre performance but I hope it helps.

    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

  18. #18
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    Nice. A lot closer to the real thing than what I do. I take my cue from the bass/piano part between verses with a little extra, so I come back up to land on the D chord. I do pretty much the same thing for the intro that I do as the interlude between chorus and next verse, partly because I play in a band and we just count it and jump in, so I've simplified. Hope this makes sense:

    A C#m F#m E ......D
    -5-4-|-0-2-0-------|-2-2-2-5-|-5-
    ------|-------4-2-0-|-5-5-5-9-|-9-
    ------|--------------|----------|---
    ------|--------------|----------|---

    The 0-2 is a hammer-on; 4-2-0 incorporates a bit of a smear; the double stops are chord fragments of D, of course, with the second one more or less a whole not, written as above to show it comes just before the bar. BTW, some say Ama7. some say C#m. You may infer from the above what you will. Lastly, during the refrain I copy the piano part in the second refrain. Pretty sweet stuff, that.

    Oh, one more thing - I think the chords for the intro are different, more like A D A E D. But I could be wrong.
    Last edited by journeybear; Apr-28-2012 at 1:44am. Reason: one more thing
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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    Great stuff Jim & Journeybear. Thanks!
    BTW, I've been strumming this in the key of G, as in:
    Verse: G Bm C G X4
    Chorus: G D C, G D C, G D C, C...
    Turnaround: G - G/F# (0-4-2-3) - Em - D - C...
    This sounds correct to my tin ear. Isn't the recording in G?
    BTW, I love how this tune sounds on the GDAE tenor guitar.
    Oh, Jim, I love that demo, but every time I watch it I find myself distracted by your pedal board.
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    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    Nope - A. Same with "Up On Cripple Creek." Funny to dial these songs up after playing them at about every gig for, oh, 8-9 months (even opening nearly every show with UOCC), just going from memory, and learn we do them (and "Ophelia", in C) in the same keys as the originals. Our singer has great fun with his Rick Danko impression on the fourth verse. Me, I have much fun with the high harmony on the last verse. It's a bit of a challenge, kind of a soul point, but when I get it right, my spirit soars. Plus I get a very long solo on this, a whole verse and chorus, which gives me an opportunity to really work some dynamics, and if I do it right gets applause. Sweet!



    For "The Last Waltz" they were in Bb. No idea why. No horns. And play the dang mandolin neck, Robbie!



    Yeah, I was checking out Jim's rig too. Looks like fun! Nice to have that just sitting there, waiting for you whenever ...
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  21. #21
    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    That's my church rig, guys. I use an Ernie Ball volume, Moen Uni-Comp compressor, ProCo Rat distortion, Morley switchless wah, and Digitech HardWire DL-8 delay. I'm looking for a new delay. I want a tap tempo which converts quarter note taps to dotted eighths. The TC Electronics Nova Repeater does it. I have a Dunlop Cry Baby which I like better but it has a weird quirk when I'm hooked up at church. It howls in the IEM system but only when it's cocked and in the heel down/toe up position. We go into a DI and straight to the board -no amps. I couldn't figure out what was causing the howling so I decided to try the Morley. Haven't used it at church yet, but there's no switch. The effect is just off when you aren't rocking it with your foot, so hopefully it will be quiet. There's a Danelectro CT-1 tremolo pedal sitting there but since I had to replace the Cry Baby with the Morley there's no room on the board. I'd like to try a Plutoneium Chi Wah Wah because they are only as big as a regular effect pedal.
    Last edited by Jim Broyles; Apr-28-2012 at 12:55pm. Reason: Add some information.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

  22. #22
    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    I just ordered a Line 6 Echo Park delay. It has the features I need so even though the DL-8 is probably a better pedal l'll probably sell it now.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

  23. #23
    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    Thanks much JB! Worked on The Weight in A this morning. What a great strumming/sing-along song!

    Also, tying all this back to the OP, consider the following:
    Some chord charts for The Weight list C#m in the verse and A/G# in the turnaround. Consider the following:
    A/G# = A C# E G#
    C#m = C# E G#

    While strumming the song out today on my GDAE tenor guitar, I found that 2-2-4-4 (A major with G# in the treble) works fine for both. Also, it works out nicely that all the chords in the verse can be played with a barre on 2:

    Verse:
    A (2-2-4-5) A/G# or C#m (2-2-4-4) D (2-4-5-2) A (2-2-4-5)

    Chorus:
    [sounds better with the E & D as open chords IMO, so use: A (2-2-4-5) E (1-2-2-0) D (2-0-0-2)]
    AED, AED
    AED, D....

    Turnaround:
    A (2-2-4-5) A/G# or C#m (2-2-4-4) F#m (2-2-4-2) E (1-2-2-0) D (2-0-0-2) D (2-0-0-2) A (2-2-4-5)

    Thanks again Jim & JB!
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  24. #24
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    Good to see you're making progress, and if I have played any part in this, your edification serves as my satisfaction. In other words, if you're happy, I'm happy.

    Something to consider is this song is composed of one walkdown after another. It's nice to be able to express that somehow, preferably on one string. Hard to do a walkdown in A from the low A on a mandolin - next to no room on the G string - but on a CGDA mandola or tenor guitar it might work better. Or you could choose another string, like the D or E string. What I have sort of relates to this action on the E string, but I am not following it exactly, of course. But I do prefer using a C#m rather than an Ama7 for the second chord, with a 1244 voicing. For one thing, I don't think the Ama7 feels right, and for another, I don't think that's how it's written. It's the elephant in the room; high time someone mentioned it. I am pretty sure that's so for the verse, and have always assumed the same obtains for the interlude. If someone has access to the actual sheet music rather than what some goober uploaded to the interweb please straighten us out here.

    BTW & FWIW - I neglected to mention that in my version of the riff I slur from the one doublestop to the next. That is, I strike the strings the third time and slide up to the next position. It's a very guitar-like move, and sounds very cool when I nail it (about 97.5% of the time).
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  25. #25
    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Same chord?

    It is definitely C#m in the verse and you can use A/G# in the walk down. I would not use the 2244 Amaj7 in this song at all. I would use X700 X600 X400 X200 2002 for the walk down in A.

    Minor rant: I am JB. My name was jbmando here until we went to real names and I use jbmando on four guitar sites. When I see a post addressed to JB, I always think it's for me. Call the other guy j. His screen name is all one word!
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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