Steve Kaufman Celtic Workout

**Bookman** · Jul-07-2004, 11:41am

Having started out with Padraig Carroll's Guide to Learning the Irish Mandolin, I am looking for other materials to broaden my knowledge/skills. Has anyone tried the Steve Kaufman 4 hour Celtic Workout? Does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks.

**dane** · Jul-08-2004, 10:23pm

I tried it and didn't care for it at all. #Steve Kaufman's a great flatpick guitarist, but he plays mandolin like a flatpick guitarist and he plays Celtic music like a flatpick guitarist. #For expanding a Celtic repertoire, I like McCullough's "121 Favorite Irish Session Tunes." #For more instruction with mando focus, Simon Mayor's "New Celtic Mandolin" (book + CD) is pretty good. #Finally, the BBC's free online "virtual session" site is excellent:

BBC Virtual Sessions

**Mandobar** · Jul-09-2004, 5:58am

i agree with dane, although i like to use the cd's as backup and just play the tunes how i learned them. i'm not even that fond of steve's bluegrass workout transcriptions.

**GBG** · Jul-09-2004, 8:24am

Be sure to checkout thesession.org for ITM discussion and many tunes.

**jlb** · Jul-09-2004, 8:53am

I'll echo the choir here. I didn't find this instructional material very useful. Steve Kaufman is a talented but inherently contest-style flatpicker, and it comes through in his transcriptions.

**RobP** · Jul-09-2004, 4:08pm

Originally Posted by (dane @ July 08 2004, 23:23)

Steve Kaufman's a great flatpick guitarist, but he plays mandolin like a flatpick guitarist

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? It seems to me there are striking similarities between playing mandolin and flatpick guitar. In what ways do you look for a mandolin style to be different than a flatpick guitar style?

Thanks,

Rob

**dane** · Jul-09-2004, 9:09pm

I'll probably be banned forever from Kaufman's Kamp for posting all this.

First, realize that there's very little if any mando on Kaufman's Celtic workout. #My complaint about that package is that it is very lacking in any genuine Celtic flavor. #Kaufman's guitar strumming and picking style and patterns are just vastly different from traditional Irish guitarists like Ian Carr, Dennis Cahill, John Doyle, etc. -- so different that his versions of tunes are barely recognizable.

With respect to mandolin, what I don't like about Kaufman's style are the following:

1. #Little or no rhythmic variation -- just long series of 16th note runs.

2. #Very little in the way of ornamentation, especially "mando specific" ornamentation -- tremelo, hammer-ons, pull-offs, etc.

3. #Virtually no use of double stops.

**Bookman** · Jul-10-2004, 1:28pm

Thanks everyone. That was really useful.

**Jaws** · Jul-11-2004, 2:36am

I have to echo Dane's comments. I've got Kaufman's Encyclopaedia of Celtic Tunes, and compared to Simon Mayor's new Celtic Mandolin, everything seems quite simplified. On the other hand, I find it a good place to start if I can't get a grip on where to start the tune by ear. I confess I'm still a bit daunted everytime I open Mayor's book and take a peek, so I haven't gotten started on much in it.

**RobP** · Jul-11-2004, 10:51am

Does the Mayor material have a CD with it that plays the tune at a slower speed for learning?

Thanks,

Rob

**Dolamon** · Jul-11-2004, 10:29pm

Yes - all of Simon's books have accompanying CD's. Simon's playing is unique and geared towards a solo performance rather than a session or big group type of exploration. You will learn from him - if you take your time. As for slowing it down - well that's up to your player, his notation is probably one of the most accurate approaches available today. He uses a lot of dotted notes and legato slurs which he explains in great detail.

If you're just starting out - I'd suggest his Mandolin Tutor. If you have a few years of experience or want to really push yourself, then his "Mastering the Mandolin" or his "New Celtic Mandolin". Mid Continent #stocks all of his incredible work. He is worth exploring - if only for the exercises (and amazingly bad jokes).

Oh yes - His books are listed separately from the CD's ...

**mad dawg** · Jul-11-2004, 11:29pm

Originally Posted by

Does the Mayor material have a CD with it that plays the tune at a slower speed for learning?

As Dolaman mentioned, Mayor does offer both music CDs and companion notation books (I for one am not really not sure if the chicken or the egg came first). As for slowing down his CDs, the Amazing Slow Downer is a great tool for slowing down the speed of music CDs and music files without changing the pitch. You can read about it and download it from its author's web site at RoniMusic.com. (Roni now accepts on-line payments; for the longest time he only took payment by cashiers check via snail mail.)

**steve V. johnson** · Jul-11-2004, 11:31pm

I have to chime in here, too. I had been playing in sessions for only about a year when I bought the Kaufman and nothing in there bore any resemblance to what I had heard in US and Ireland sessions.

I don't know about the flatpicking stuff, but I haven't gotten any use at all from the Kaufman project. Listened to it once through and put it aside, sadly.

stv

**Bob DeVellis** · Jul-13-2004, 8:40am

Ditto

**Greg Ashton** · Jul-13-2004, 7:10pm

Is there a way to record the BBC Virtual Session and put it on a CD? I'd really like to try the session out but it's not convenient to play mandolin at my computer terminal.

**kebmando** · Jul-19-2004, 9:44pm

I have found that listening to Bothy Band albums over and over, and also going to Celtic jams, has been the only two ways for a Yankee like me to really get the rythmic feel of traditional Celtic music...and I just barely get it.

That Celtic groove is just something many of us hear little to nothing of in the US mainstream, but its something I like to think us US Celts feel an intuitive drawing to when we hear, even if it seems "foreign"...kinda like the voice of an Irishman. Surely, its alot easier to fake an Irish accent than to fake an Irish tune.

**harribobs** · Jul-20-2004, 8:16am

very interesting, I have been using the padraig carrol book and cd and was wondering about the best next step

**Anglocelt** · Mar-21-2012, 3:44am

Originally Posted by harribobs

very interesting, I have been using the padraig carrol book and cd and was wondering about the best next step

Harribobs, if you don't already do so your next step should be attending one of the fine Irish music sessions to be found in the Manchester area. They may seem like high-octane experiences for a beginner but you will get the feel for how ITM should be played. You may even come across a mandolin player to pick up tips from.

Once you have a couple of tunes in a set worked out from the Carroll book (and can play along with his CD) you can have a go at leading some tunes, telling them you are a beginner and want to take it steady. You may be pleasantly surprised at the sympathetic hearing and encouragement you get.

Failing that I can guarantee you a welcome in the Huddersfield session I go to on Thursday nights - only 25 miles from Manchester!

Kevin

**Pete Braccio** · Mar-21-2012, 4:17pm

Is there a way to record the BBC Virtual Session and put it on a CD? I'd really like to try the session out but it's not convenient to play mandolin at my computer terminal.

Yepper. I have MP3s available at the site in my signature.

Pete