Brand new capek f-mandolin

**Oliver Fuchs** · Aug-14-2008, 9:00am

Hello,

got my brand new (4 days) custom made Capek F-style (similar to his top model "Sophia" but without all the fancy inlays...).

It sounds nice but not great (yet); almost a little "damped" and lacks sustain, bass and responsiveness. Do you think it will "open up" distinctly? And if yes: how long do you think it will take (if I play about 1 hour a day)?

Oliver

**Fretbear** · Aug-14-2008, 12:12pm

I've never played a Capek, but there is no reason to think that it would not be like any other F-5 (if it has parallel tone bars) and will require at least 4 to 6 months to settle in and open up. You might want to throw down some recordings of some tunes that you know so you can compare later. The more you play it, the faster the process will happen.

**Oliver Fuchs** · Aug-14-2008, 4:56pm

Thank you Scott! So I think I will give it a few moths...
I already did some recordings today btw (and compared it to my 1996 Gibson A5G, the Gibson sounded much better...).

**Tomm Truckenmueller** · Dec-27-2008, 7:24am

Hallo, Oliver,
wie hat sich deine CAPEK denn so entwickelt -
und wo steckst du in good old Germany?

Schönen Gruss
Tomm - 72108 Rottenburg

**Oliver Fuchs** · Jan-25-2009, 4:59am

Sadly, after 5 months and a lot of playing I noticed no improvement yet: Still too tight, weak (in the bass and low mid range) thin and "boring"

It does sound a little better (clearer, better protection) than my Eastman 515 though. But for the price (4400 $) I am very dissapointed. I prefer my Gibson A-5G (about 800 € used) by far...

Btw the models I tried at TAMCO or in Capeks workshop were excellent - much better than mine

**Mike Snyder** · Jan-25-2009, 5:54am

Don't give up too soon. Play it hard, son. Whip it like a rented mule. It's a quality instrument, and it will come around. De-damping or Tonerite vibration perhaps. If the ones you liked were good, yours will be good too. Just takes time. And a really good set-up. Talk to the builder. Heck, you're both on the same side of the pond. He may have suggestions.

**MikeEdgerton** · Jan-25-2009, 7:09am

Then again, it just might not. We need to face the fact that there are some instruments that just don't do it and no amount of gadgets and geegaws will make it any better.

**Dfyngravity** · Jan-25-2009, 7:38am

From what I have heard, Capek mandolins are pretty good, in fat some well named musicians own either mandolas or mandolins by Capek. Have you looked at the bridge to see if it has a nice tight fit to the top. Custom builders do pay very close to details, but every once in a while one might slip through the cracks. I would contact him and tell him what you are experiencing, it has been my experience that many custom builders will be glad to help out if not go out of their way to make every customer happy. I mean it is the customers that help sell the builders product. Though builders do not guarantee you that they will delivery a true monster, I believe it is their goal to delivery an instrument that is as close to what the customer wanted as they can get it. I think if you are really disappointed with the way the mandolin sounds and that it is quite subpar of the previous ones you played that he may be willing to work with you.

**Chuck Naill** · Jan-25-2009, 12:57pm

I am one who does not go along with the notion that an instrument "opens up" although I do not deny that instruments change, just not that they transform into something positive as a result of age.

INHO, your experiance confirms that:

1. You should play before you buy
2. If the instrument does not sound good off the bench, do not expect it to become something later.

chuck naill

**HoGo** · Jan-25-2009, 2:53pm

I just have one Capek like that at home. Same symptoms. It'll need some tone-bar shaving to pull the sound out of it...

**Oliver Fuchs** · Jan-25-2009, 5:45pm

Originally Posted by HoGo

I just have one Capek like that at home. Same symptoms. It'll need some tone-bar shaving to pull the sound out of it...

Thank you for sharing your experience. Have you already done the shaving? Did it help? How much work (how many hours) would the tone-bar shaving take?

**Bernie Daniel** · Jan-25-2009, 11:41pm

Chuck Naill: am one who does not go along with the notion that an instrument "opens up" although I do not deny that instruments change, just not that they transform into something positive as a result of age.

Chuck, I partly believe you are correct in the extreme. A cheap mandolin with a plywood top (for example) will never open up and sound like a quality mandolin no matter how long you keep it Its like the saying goes if you have a bad bottle of red wine give it 100 years -- then you will have a 100 year old bottle of bad wine.

But clearly good mandolins do open up (improve noticably) as you play them. However, your point is that Oliver is not going to be happy with his mandolin even if he gives it another year or even 10 years is well taken.

Oliver I think I would first make sure the set up was good -- esp the bridge.
But I suspect it is not the set up that is the problem here. Given that you are already knowledgable about mandolins you would probably already have checked this out.

So I think you have a mandolin that -- for whatever reason -- is lacking. You paid a lot for it and of course you had a lot of other options -- other luthiers etc.

I would express my concerns to Mr. Capcek -- for that kind of money you should be happy.

I know several people with these mandolins and they are pleased with them. I would bet he will gladly work with you.

**HoGo** · Jan-26-2009, 7:34am

Originally Posted by Oliver Fuchs

Thank you for sharing your experience. Have you already done the shaving? Did it help? How much work (how many hours) would the tone-bar shaving take?

I haven't done it yet. I went around it with hacklinger caliper and the top/back graduations seem to be normal (though perhaps I'd leave recurve a touch thicker for such a low flat arch). The tonebars are done in violin style, which makes them almost twice as thick as typical Loar bars.
I have no idea how long it will take, but I'm allways doing it in small steps and play/listen and let sit for a while... Lets say half hour a day for a few weeks. If I were doing this for money I'd shave more on initial sessions and slow down later, that would cut the time down to half.
But I'd suggest talking to Mr. Capek first.
BTW, this mando has extremely thick lacquer coat too. You can see almost 0.5mm thick edge of lacquer on the f/b extension....

**Ivan Kelsall** · Jan-27-2009, 2:56am

Well said Bernie - Give the luthier the chance to put things right before anything else. Roska Capek is highly regarded as a Mandolin maker,however,not all Mandolins by ANY maker are going to be masterpieces. I'd contact him,explain your concerns & take it from there,purely out of courtesy to Mr.Capek as much as anything else,
Saska

**Oliver Fuchs** · Jan-27-2009, 3:33am

Of course I already contacted Mr. Capek. When the mandolin arrived I told him directly that I am not satisfied with it's tone. He emphasised that the mandolin will take time to break in... So I waited 4 months (until the end of november) and wrote him again (twice) but didn't get an answer from him yet

**david blair** · Jan-27-2009, 6:52am

The set up is so very important to maximize the sound of your mandolin. Little details can make a huge difference. For instance the bridge- does it lean forward or stand 90 degrees? Are the nut/saddle string slots filed in the direction of the string or maybe pinching somehow? And are the edges of the string slots perfect/abrupt? If any string is not as strong as another these could be causing the weakness. Sustain can be increased with a heavy tailpiece and a well fitted bone nut. Your choice of pick will also have an effect on how much bass you're hearing. I went through four bridges, two nuts, and a James tailpiece. Getting the string angles and slots perfect along with the correct radius for the saddle made a dramatic improvement for me.
Radim Zenkl plays a Capek with a custom wide neck. I remember the sound as balanced, and quite loud.
Regards

**Dfyngravity** · Jan-27-2009, 8:48am

Oliver, if I were you I would wait just a bit longer. Hopefully there is a good reason for him not contacting you back. I have a contact that knows him so I will see if I can get some info for you.

Instruments definitely do open up and the sound will become better with time, just like a nice wine. But, when you first start playing it you should be able to hear the potential and it should be something you are satisfied with. If not, it probably will never get to the point where you are satisfied....which you should be when you are pay 4K for an instrument. When purchasing a custom built mandolin you are not able to play the instrument you are buying because it has to be made. Most builders I have dealt with have said if you are not satisfied let them know and they will do what can to fix the problem. I have even heard of builders making new instruments for clients that were not satisfied with theirs when they received it. Not saying this should be a common practice, but when you are paying 4K for an instrument, the builder should be willing to remedy the problem because this is not an instrument you are buying off the rack. And like it said, dissatisfied customers are not what builders want because word of mouth is what makes or breaks small builders.

**Bernie Daniel** · Jan-27-2009, 9:02am

Dfyngravity: Instruments definitely do open up and the sound will become better with time, just like a nice wine. But, when you first start playing it you should be able to hear the potential and it should be something you are satisfied with. If not, it probably will never get to the point where you are satisfied....which you should be when you are pay 4K for an instrument.

Some truth to what you say for sure -- see my early post on this string. I pretty much agree.

The sound on that mandolin is about where it going to be -- barring some re-working. Oliver is WAY past the time he should be seeing some good results -- if his set up is OK the mandolin should be satisfying him by now. Its not so -- in my opinion -- there is zero chance that it is going to suddenly "break in" and sound great.

Capek should have gotten back with him right away to see what can be done -- in my opinion. If he has been contacted (TWICE!) and has actually recieved those messages he is tardy in responding -- his customer paid him over $4K for a mandolin -- he needs to stand behind it -- if he intends to do so.

There are many great luthiers these days......

One potential problem Oliver -- you are comparing your new mandolin to what is probably a VERY GOOD older mando -- you said you had a Gibson A-5 right?

This is pretty stiff competetion for anyone to beat.

**Charles the Bear** · Mar-07-2009, 5:45pm

Hi Oliver, just wondering if there was any resolution to this situation?

Charles

**Dave Hanson** · Mar-07-2009, 10:45pm

I agree with Chuck Naill, a quality instrument should sound good even when brand new and improve with age, if it doesn't sound good from the start it never will.

Dave H

**Oliver Fuchs** · Mar-20-2009, 5:31pm

Hello,

thank you everybody for your concern and support!

I don't know why but finally - after more than 7 months - it is slowly starting to "break in" now (in the meantime I brought my Capek to a luthier and he made some small nut and bridge adjustments, maybe that helped a little). The luthier pointed out that this mandolin has a very thick top (much thicker than my Gibson A5) and will therefore take more time to break in...

Right now a Tonerite is connected to my Capek... I hope this will improve its tone a little more... I'll let you know...

**frankenstein** · Mar-20-2009, 6:26pm

Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton

Then again, it just might not. We need to face the fact that there are some instruments that just don't do it and no amount of gadgets and geegaws will make it any better.

That is unless it's a gibson of course...

**Oliver Fuchs** · May-27-2009, 11:37am

Yesterday I got my Capek back from a luthier who installed a new Cumberland bridge. It definitely sounds better now. Especially the G-strings got more volume and punch. Furthermore the sustain is better now (even above the 19. fret!).

Overall it sound pretty nice now (though still not 100% like the "Sophias" I've played...).

**Lefty Luthier** · May-27-2009, 12:45pm

I suggest that you contact Roger Siminoff. He offers commercial dedamping services that work. That is no guarantee that this particular mandolin will improve markedly but in most cases, dedamping works well. Every instrument that I build is dedamped here in my shop and I would hesitate to purchase a custom mandolin from any luthier that did not provide this service as part of a complete set-up.

**Ivan Kelsall** · May-27-2009, 11:56pm

Oliver - having just read your last post,it seems that you've had a similar experience to my own when i bought my first Lebeda Mandolin. It didn't sound too good at all & didn't give me the impression thatit was going to sound much better with 'playing in'. I bought & installed a Cumberland Acoustics bridge & it improved the sound tremendously. Your Mandolin ,hopefully,should begin to open up nicely now,just give it time & plenty of playing,
Ivan