Big rock candy mountains

[Chris Travers]

Does anyone actually play this, or is it just a funny tune everybody knows? (well... probably not everybody)

[mandoplyr70]

I haven,t heard that song since years ago. Used to be a statue sang that song at the beginning of the enchanted trail on top of Lookout Mountain. Wonder if it,s still there singing that song ?

[red7flag]

Was done by John Hartford on the Down from the Mountain CD. #Was from the concert series resulting from "Oh Brother Where Art Thou". Speaking of John Hartford, a bit of trivia. He got an Polka Emmy for a Polka version done of one of his beautiful songs, All in my Love for you. I strongly recommend http://www.johnhartford.com . While John is no longer with us, his site is still a great source of great concerts, including some great Mike Compton, David Long and Steve Gilchrist footage.
Tony

[CES]

I think it's a very cool song and am working on it now, but at a local party with a BG band for entertainment it was requested and the boys (who were actually quite good) said they didn't know it well enough to play it...

[allenhopkins]

Neat article in Wikipedia about the song -- I didn't know that it had been cleaned up as much as it has been! #Of course, the kids' versions that circulate eliminate the "cigarette trees" and the lakes of gin and whiskey, but -- well, you might enjoy reading the article:

-- I find that the Cafe format won't let me post a Wikipedia link??? -- Just to a Google search on Big Rock Candy Mountain and check it out...

I do the song occasionally, as much as I retain of the Burl Ives version, but Haywire Mac's original was sure a lot more gritty.

[earthsave]

The Down from the Mountain version is great with John Hartford and Mike Compton.

[Ivan Kelsall]

The first version i heard of this was waaaaaaaaaaay back .It was sung by Burl Ives & was a very popular song on kids programmes over here in the UK. The singer in the "Oh ! Brother" soundtrack was Harry McClintock,who also wrote it,
Saska

[oldtimestrings]

I play it, and everybody seems to like it when I do. My grade-school age daughter loves it, too, and I don't tone anything down on her behalf. It's a funny song, of course, but more than just a novelty. I think it captures very well the hobo life and attitude of the pre-Depression days, when hoboing was in fact a lifestyle choice made by many a man.

Doc Watson used to do a nice variation on this tune called "Little Stream of Whiskey" that I also like very much. My version is closer to McClintock's, though.

[RobP]

We do it -- the audience usually loves it. #We recently were invited to play a number at a local Vaudeville show, and we decided to do Big Rock. #You can watch the performance on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bznewY-pfqU

Thats me on mando

Cheers,

Rob

(and clearly that was before I bought the breedlove )

[allenhopkins]

I'm copying the Wikipedia article (since I couldn't link it). #I found it very interesting. #The implications of pedophilia, pretty explicit in McClintock's last verse, have been completely sanitized out in subsequent versions -- not to mention the removal of the alcohol and tobacco references in the "kids' versions" (ones that I remember from brightly colored little 78-rpm records I played in the '50's).

The song is generally recognized as a turn of the century hobo ballad based on An Invitation to Lubberland, but authorship is also generally attributed to Harry McClintock since earlier written evidence of the song is not known. As a result, the song's copyright status is also in dispute. There are secondhand reports that McClintock attempted to enforce a copyright on the song but lost his lawsuit; in that case the song is in the public domain. Without further verification it must be assumed that the song is copyright by Harry McClintock.

The song was first recorded in 1928 by Harry McClintock, also known as Haywire Mac. It is probably best remembered for its recording by Burl Ives in 1949, but it has been recorded by many artists throughout the world. A version recorded in 1960 by Dorsey Burnette reached #102 in Billboard, the biggest success for the song in the post-1954 "rock era".

Sheet music with a copyright date 1928, by Denton & Haskins Music Pub. Co. Inc., 1595 Broadway, New York, N.Y., identify the author as Billy Mack.

Before recording the song, McClintock cleaned it up considerably from the version he sang as a street busker in 1897. Originally the song described a child being recruited into hobo life by tales of the "big rock candy mountain". Such recruitment actually occurred, with hobos enchanting children with tales of adventure called ghost stories by other hobos. In proof of his authorship of the song, McClintock published the original words, the last stanza of which was:
The punk rolled up his big blue eyes
And said to the jocker, "Sandy,
I've hiked and hiked and wandered too,
But I ain't seen any candy.
I've hiked and hiked till my feet are sore
And I'll be damned if I hike any more
To be buggered sore like a hobo's whore
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains."

In the released version this verse did not appear. Sanitized versions have been popular, especially with children's musicians; in these, the "cigarette trees" become peppermint trees, and the "streams of alcohol" trickling down the rocks become streams of lemonade. The lake of gin is not mentioned, and the lake of whiskey becomes a lake of soda pop.

[Jack Roberts]

My mother used to sing it to me when I was a little tyke. 50 years ago. I think it was a cleaned up version, but she made us all laugh because she would sing the last line "in the big rock candy mountains" in a really silly hobo voice.

[earthsave]

John Hartford says

"There's a lake of stew and Gingerale too and you can paddle all around em in a big canoe, in the Big Rock Candy Mountain."

[Keith Erickson]

Big Rock Candy Mountains is also on the Mo McCoury CD.

Great Tune....

Hey Allen,

When I was 6 years old, I use to have a 45 RPM of "Big Rock Candy Mountains" and I remember singing about the cigarette trees. #

Now these days, my wife always yells at me because she believes I am sending our young uke player the wrong messages.

I never knew why I would sing the song that way, but I thought it was funny and continued to be a comedian.

Thanks for confirming "the cigarette trees" for us

P.S. My wife is reading this post and she's not amused #

[allenhopkins]

I think what really got me, if you read my August 3 post, was the implication of homosexual pedophilia in that verse that McClintock published. #Apparently his take on the song, was that it described the fantastic tales a hobo would tell, to lure a young boy to be "buggered sore like a hobo's whore, in the Big Rock Candy Mountains."

I always saw the song as sort of a lighthearted tall tale, but the harsh, gritty, outlaw side of hobo life peeks through in that verse. #Just like the last verse of Little Stream of Whiskey, a similar recounting of a "hobo paradise," where the dying hobo's partner "steals his shoes and socks, and hops an eastbound train," or something like that.

We romanticize the hobo life now, but many weren't just honest men down on their luck; there were sociopaths, psychos, and a fair number of serious predators among them. #Some nasty doings in those Big Rock Candy Mountains from time to time.

[Steve L]

We romanticize the hobo life now, but many weren't just honest men down on their luck; there were sociopaths, psychos, and a fair number of serious predators among them. #Some nasty doings in those Big Rock Candy Mountains from time to time.

Sounds like the Boston Public Library.

[JeffD]

Sounds like the Boston Public Library.

[man dough nollij]

Or the Minneapolis airport...

[Keith Erickson]

Or the Minneapolis airport...

[Alex Orr]

I wonder where the ties are between "Big Rock Candy Mountain" and "Little Stream of Whiskey". Both are songs about an idealized heaven for the idealized hobo. I wonder if they diverge from a similar source, or if one was just an altered rewrite of the other. If one came first, I'd guess it's "Little Stream of Whiskey".

BTW, Norman and Nancy do a wonderful version of "Little Stream of Whiskey", although Doc's version may be better known.

[Keith Erickson]

I think what really got me, if you read my August 3 post, was the implication of...

Allen,

I did read that and I know that wikipedia is quoted quite a bit as a an authority but I find myself reading wikipedia with some doubt and skepticism.

More than a few times, I found erroneous information that was touted to be the truth.

One instance that came to mind...

...I was interested in reading up on Spandau Prison. #Ran a Google Search and I ventured over to wikipedia.

As I was reading, I couldn't believe what was touted as fact....

The wikipedia article mentioned that the 80's band Spandau Ballet was started by inmates serving time in Spandau Prison and they went on to become one of the best bands of the 80's #

I have money that says that's not true.

[Santiago]

Man, I love those original lyrics! I can see Burle Ives skipping over those. Makes it a real song rather than a kiddie song.

[SGraham]

There's a Norwegian tune called "Oleanna" that centers on the same theme: paradise for those who don't want to work--in this case Norwegian emigrees to America who became the victims of Ole Bull's misguided philanthropy. I think it was penned by a Norwegian newspaperman. The whole story is available in Alan Lomax's "Folk Songs of America."

"The little pigs they roast themselves,
Then trot around this happy land
With knives and forks stuck in their backs
Inquiring if you'd like some ham."

Maybe BRCM took its inspiration from this?

Steve

[allenhopkins]

Keith, I share your skepticism about Wikipedia. #In another post, I mentioned how my son, a Berkeley grad student in political science, rewrote the Wiki article on Bill Monroe, which, when he found it, stated Monroe was a banjo player and that Doc Watson was in his band at one point.

But the article on Big Rock Candy Mountain has a definite ring of authenticity. #The author knows a great deal about "Haywire Mac" McClintock, and it doesn't seem too likely that he would make up a lyric as arcane and yet disturbing as the one he quotes. #So until proven otherwise, I'm going to accept it as substantially accurate.

Wikipedia can be a valuable source -- if you have enough basic, general knowledge to fuel your BS detector in the subject area you're viewing. #Otherwise, you can get results such as you found for Spandau Ballet, and unknowingly accept them as "gospel."

[Keith Erickson]

Wikipedia can be a valuable source -- if you have enough basic, general knowledge to fuel your BS detector in the subject area you're viewing. #Otherwise, you can get results such as you found for Spandau Ballet, and unknowingly accept them as "gospel."

Allen,

You're right!!! #However what scares me is, for one reason or another, that the some folks do not have a Barbara Strisand detector.

I have to say that I'll never look at the Big Rock County Mountains the same way again.

...and I guess I would also have a hard time imagining Albert Speer, Rudolph Hess and Karl Donitz touring as Spandau Ballet #

[man dough nollij]

Hmm. I wonder if there are folks who deliberately post things like that in Wikipedia, just to see how long it lasts before someone corrects it.

I use Wikipedia all the time, but never think of it as source of verified facts. Just a quick place to look stuff up.


Mando content: Ol' Bill could play wikid fast!