Cittern 25 inch scale vs what scale?

[mrkrishna]

I did a big conversion a few months back. I took a Norman guitar neck that I had replaced the headstock on (and never drilled the machine head holes for), shaved down the sides of it, and put it on a plywood guitar body that was the same scale (so the bridge was in the right place) I then built a 10 string rosewood bridge, slapped a set of Grovers on it and away I went! After about 30 hours playing, I took off all the octave strings (and now extra Machines) . I have it tuned in 5ths and am wrecking my left hand trying to play the silly thing. I ended up with two Yamaha 310 guitars yesterday and am going to try a few experiments with a shorter scale cittern. What scale length fretboard should I try? I still want to play the thing in 5ths. Also are there any suggestions on what tuning I might try with the 25 inch scale one? Inquiring minds want to know!! Thanks for any replies!...Kerry Krishna

[groveland]

That's interesting. The ~25 inch scale is perfect in my experience. I'm using a Moon long scale cittern at that scale tuned CGDAE - They use a regular guitar neck and frets, and it's extremely comfortable. The width is about 1 3/4 inches at the nut, and the string height at the 12th fret is a little more than 2.0 mm. So I'm thinking it may be your string gauges...

I use the following:
.010
.017
.030w
.040w
.052w

200 lbs
~95 kg

Hope that helps!

[mrkrishna]

Is there no one here who can help me pick a scale?

[Martin Jonas]

Well, standard mandocello scale length is 25" or so (Weber's are 24-3/4"), and as your lowest string is tuned to the mandocello C, that's a sensible scale. Some Moon citterns are a bit shorter -- TAMCO have a 23.5" one in stock (quite reasonably priced, too). If you find it impossible to play CGDAE on yours, many citterns are tuned DGDAD and you may prefer that.

But I feel that the secret is in the fingering. On an instrument of that length, you really should play with cello fingering, i.e. one finger per fret, and you will need to do a lot more shifting that on mandolin or a short-scale OM. If you want a much shorter-scale cittern, you probably need to say goodbye to the mandocello C. You could have GDAEB (or GDAEA), which works fine with scale lenths around 16" to 19".

Martin

[groveland]

Is there no one here who can help me pick a scale?

I thought I did! #24 3/4 " works great. #Maybe I don't understand the question...

[mrkrishna]

Groveland, I'm going to build a small scale cittern and need a scale length to start with. It begins to look like 20 and a quarter inch is gonna be it. Thanks for your help...Kerry K

[allenhopkins]

Seems to me that you have a sensible approach: build an instrument with a scale you're comfortable playing, then experiment with string gauges until you find a 5ths tuning that works for you. "Cittern" doesn't have a standard tuning such as mandola or mandocello. Are you planning to use doubled strings, in unison or octave tuning?

[mrkrishna]

The 25 inch scale did not lend itself (in my opinion) to octave strings. I built the neck with 10 strings, but took off all the octave strings as it was just not the sound I was looking for, and it was pretty hard to play. I do have 2 bouzoukies with octave strings so I do know what it sounds like. I think the 20 inch scale one that I will put together will just be 5 strings. That might sound weird, but I so enjoy the 25 inch as a 5 string. As you said, it will just be a matter of finding the right guages....Kerry K