French polishing with isopropyl alcohol?

**Spruce** · Jun-24-2008, 6:11pm

Hi all...

I'm in SoCal these days, and thought I'd do a bit of French polishing while I'm down here...

At home, I have a nice stash of Everclear (courtesy of Winfield, KS) for diluting shellac flakes, but here in California the only alcohol I have access to is 91% isopropyl...

Will it work??

Thanks in advance....

**Stephanie Reiser** · Jun-24-2008, 8:04pm

I wouldn't.
Can't you at least find denatured down there?

**Tim McTigue** · Jun-24-2008, 8:25pm

What about methyl hydrate (sold at Home Depot-hardware stores)? That stuff can be used as a fuel...

**Paul Hostetter** · Jun-25-2008, 1:12am

Nothing works as well as ethyl alcohol, and the highest proof (alcohol to water) you can get in CA is too low in alcohol to be of any use. By this I mean not only isopropyl, which is mostly water, but the California iteration of Everclear, which in this state is 40 proof. (It is to laff.) I get mine in Oregon, which is 90-some proof grain alcohol, and that stuff (several brands, for some reason) works fine. Your only hope in CA is knowing someone in either a medical school or chemistry department at a college, or someone in pharmaceutical production who can smuggle you some.

**Ivan Kelsall** · Jun-25-2008, 4:56am

You might care to make a phone call to Frank Ford at Gryphon (i think) Music & ask his advice. He´s one of the very finest repair guys on the planet & i´m sure that he´d be able to point you in the right direction re. a useable alchohol available in CA.. In the past,i´ve used Methylated spirit for dissolving shellac flakes & it´s worked ok every time,
Saska

**Bill Snyder** · Jun-25-2008, 7:20am

Originally Posted by (Paul Hostetter @ June 25 2008, 01:12)

...but the California iteration of Everclear, which in this state is 40 proof. (It is to laff.) I get mine in Oregon, which is 90-some proof grain alcohol, and that stuff (several brands, for some reason) works fine.

Paul, I suspect you meant 190 proof (95% alcohol).

**Jim Hilburn** · Jun-25-2008, 8:29am

So if you go to Home Depot you can't get denatured?
Or is the point to avoid using it because of the nasty stuff in it?

**Paul Hostetter** · Jun-25-2008, 8:59am

Bill - Thanks, and you're right, I got that equation backwards. But whatever it is, it works fine.

I remember a French friend traveling with me from Washington to California who watched me buy some of the Oregon stuff on the way home, and he was astonished at the price. In France you can by the highest proof ethyl in 10-liter containers for a dollar or two, and I was paying $10 or more for a 3/4 liter bottle. He found this incomprehensible. I guess the French government doesn't worry that many people are going to opt for cheap grain alcohol over the local plonk.

Denatured means it's got a poison added to render it undrinkable - an interesting choice of terminology, non? I've used methyl (denatured) but have always felt straight ethyl worked better, and knowing it wasn't toxic was a real plus.

**man dough nollij** · Jun-25-2008, 3:41pm

You might drop a note to the nearest biodiesel coop-- I know of a couple in Montana, and they're probably everywhere in California. Biodiesel can be made with either methyl or ethyl alcohol, but anyone who is experimenting should have tons of both on hand. Not sure where they get it in California-- they probably bring it in in bulk. If you're just looking for a small quantity, they might help you out.

**Spruce** · Jun-25-2008, 7:10pm

"Your only hope in CA is knowing someone in either a medical school or chemistry department at a college, or someone in pharmaceutical production who can smuggle you some. "

Bummer...
Any of you luthiers in the Orange County (ugh!) area with some suitable alcohol to spare in a small quantity? #
Got some nice seasoned wood sitting here to trade... #

"So if you go to Home Depot you can't get denatured? "

I've looked everywhere to no avail...
The only thing I've been able to find is the aforementioned 91% isopropyl...

"Denatured means it's got a poison added to render it undrinkable - an interesting choice of terminology, non?"

Yeah....
Thanks for that. #Been trying to find out what "denatured" means.... #

Man, I really appreciate the Everclear I bought in Winfield...
The amazing thing is that the airlines allowed me to check it in my luggage. #I mean, that stuff is a bomb...

Toss the bag, break the bottle, add an ignition source, and down goes the 737...
Who needs a terrorist?? # #

**Jim Hilburn** · Jun-25-2008, 7:49pm

Bruce, I know last year was your first trip to Winfield but had you ever gone before you would have found no Everclear. Winfield had always been dry until about 2 years ago and last year was the first time there were liquor stores at festival time.
By the way, I've heard the fairgrounds are under water again.

If you can't get denatured at HD I guess lacquer thinner is out of the question. LMI still ships lacquer. I guess I shouldn't say anything.

**Spruce** · Jun-25-2008, 7:59pm

"Bruce, I know last year was your first trip to Winfield but had you ever gone before you would have found no Everclear."

Things change I guess...

I think I heard recently that the airlines have also changed their policies regarding checking hi-proof liquor in baggage...
I hope so...

That was just stupidly dangerous....

**buddyellis** · Jun-25-2008, 10:33pm

High proof isopropyl MIGHT work in a pinch, but I've found that it doesn't tend to 'cut' as well. In fact I often use it to 'spirit out' my finish at the end because it doesn't bite into the finish as much. #This is not due to the water content (as it is 91% alcohol) but due to the sort of alcohol it is, obviously. #I can't believe a home depot or some woodworking store wouldn't have some sort of denatured alcohol. #What sort of craziness is that? #California, the land of 'anything goes'. Unless you want to do french polishing. #God knows that's a threat to society

**Terry Braund** · Jun-25-2008, 10:42pm

Denatured alcohol is readily available in hardware stores in California.

**Larry Simonson** · Jun-25-2008, 11:23pm

If all else fails, distill a quart or two of the cheapest whiskey or a gallon of Ripple wine (with the ring-a-ding flavor).

**Spruce** · Jun-26-2008, 12:03am

"Denatured alcohol is readily available in hardware stores in California."

Thanks for that...

I've tried 2 Ace's and a Lowes, but no dice...

I'll get on the phone tomorrow....

**Paul Hostetter** · Jun-26-2008, 12:11am

Denatured is easily available in every hardware and paint store in California - DON'T BUY IT!

**Spruce** · Jun-26-2008, 3:02am

OK, got it...

I need a drink....

**david blair** · Jul-01-2008, 5:16am

Everclear is also available at the liquor stores in Nevada. I live a mile from the the border, on the Cali side of Lake Tahoe. Dart Liquors in Stateline, Nevada could possibly ship to you.

**quayhog** · Jul-01-2008, 5:36pm

Medical supply houses have Ethyl Alcohol but you may need permits and need to get it in gallon containers.

Pharmacies use ethyl alcohol to mix and compound prescriptions. Doctor's offices can also get it.

Do you have a friend that is a doctor or pharmacist?

**jackc** · Jul-01-2008, 8:20pm

People who work in hospital labs (microbiology or pathology) have ethanol (anhydrous -- 200 proof -- absorbs 5% water in minutes if left open) in 50 gallon drums. A few ounces in a drink bottle would suffice I'll bet.

Denatured alcohol is ethanol is mixed with toxic wood alcohol (methanol) so we won't drink it. The wood alcohol metabolizes in your body to formic acid (formaldehyde) which is carcinogenic and also attacks the optic nerve. Best not to absorb it though the skin or breathe too many fumes.
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**Paul Hostetter** · Jul-01-2008, 8:56pm

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**JEStanek** · Jul-01-2008, 9:54pm

Let us please keep this related strictly to Spruce's quest for a suitable French Polish medium.

Thank you.

Jamie

**Paul Hostetter** · Jul-01-2008, 11:45pm

We were discussing the French.

**HoGo** · Jul-02-2008, 2:37am

Here in SLovakia we have two kinds of denatured alcohol available. One is sold in hardware stores and usually contains MEK, acetone and isopropyl. The ethyl content is 80-90%. The other kind is sold in pharmacy. They call it "spiritus#### benzino". It's used for disinfection and is available as 60 or 95% ethyl to 1-2% benzino (that should be something like kerosene or naphtha). I think that pharmacies all over the world should carry similar products... this stuff works great.
BTW, when I asked for denatured alcohol in pharmacy they told me they don't carry it but then I pointed at the bottle and the lady told "aha, you want benzinalcohol...?"
Sometimes people don't know what they sell or what you want.