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Thread: I've been finding "chords".

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    I've been playing along with songs on Bluegrass Junction and I'm finding chord patterns that seem to work well with the songs, at least I think they're chords.
    One is xx22, then I can move to xx24 and xx25, xx27, xx29 and so on. They seem to fit into the songs pretty well. Also, there's a x3510 that works good and an x358,x357 and x355. I'm not sure what they are, I don't see em' in any of my chord books but they do sound nice and work with songs I've been playing along with.
    Sometimes I'll just find the root of the chord that I hear in a song, add a couple other notes and make up a chord that works even though I've not seen it in a book either. I guess that's the "old timey" way of doing it since folks sitting on the front porch didn't have chord books and stuff to really follow. They just had to find something that sounded right. Anyway, just though I'd throw this out there and see if anyone could make sense of it. Thanks.

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    If you are playing 2 or more notes, I think that is a chord, even if you can't name it. If the chords are meshing with music you are listening to, you have a decent ear (or alternatively, a lousy one--you decide).

    Mandolin chords are fairly easy, once you know the relationships. Look online for some chord guides, and you will find all you need to know. Don't stop trying to play whatever note combinations strike your fancy, soon you'll realize the notes you are playing are intuitive, not random, and you will have made a great stride.

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    I've pretty much played by ear all of my life and have used TAB a bit to figure out stuff that I couldn't get by ear. I do have an "ear" for notes since I can really tell when someone is sharp or flat when playing, AND it really bugs me too,LOL.
    I'd really like to pick up some song books from CD's that I have to see what they are saying for chords and leads. That's one way that I learned electric guitar "back in the day". I picked up the Boston song book to their first album(didn't have CD's back then) and also got a Beatles song book too. I need to get Cherryholmes II and Cadillac Sky song books. Guess I'll have to hit the local music store to see if they have em'.

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    "Guess I'll have to hit the local music store to see if they have em'. "

    Fat chance.

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    If you knew the note names and some theory basics, you could easily name those chords. Technically they are chords, but two note chords are more commonly known as intervals or as we call them in the mandolin world, "double stops."

    Without knowing the song context, I'll take a guess at the chords you have been playing:

    xx22 = B-F# = B
    xx24 = B-G# = E with no root
    xx25 = B-A #= B7
    xx27 = B-B #= Care to guess?
    xx29 = B-C# = C#7 possibly. This would be the II7 chord in the key of B.

    x3510 = F-D-D = Could be a D minor, among others.
    x358 = #F-D-C = Dm7
    x357 = F-D-B = Dm6 ?
    x355 = F-D-A = Dm

    I strongly urge you to learn some music theory. There are no new chords under the sun and all you have to do to be able to name them is:

    1) Know the notes on the fretboard.
    2) Know what notes make up what chord.

    Here is a tidbit which can prove to be invaluable: you don't have to have the note which names the chord in the chord. In one of the examples above, I showed you an E chord with no E in it. In context, because another instrument will cover it such as guitar or bass; and because of the range on the mandolin - you can only put four notes in any chord until you start splitting strings but that's a whole nother thang.
    On a mandolin, double stops which contain the 3rd and the 7th sound very cool. #For example, in the key of G, play:

    x32x = G7 with no G
    x21x = C7 with no C
    x43x = D7 with no D

    Try it, you'll like it.



    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

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    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
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    x355 = F-C-A = F
    ========================
    small edit:

    x355 = F-D-A = Dm

    Hey!!! No fair! You edited that while I was typing!



    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” “Accidentals”

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Already fixed.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Well, I was "teaching" without a mandolin in my hand. I caught it as soon as I posted it.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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    Quote Originally Posted by (250sc @ May 06 2008, 04:54)
    "Guess I'll have to hit the local music store to see if they have em'. "

    Fat chance.
    I was kind of thinking that but didn't want to say it,LOL
    Some of ya'll are just TOO GOOD at this chord stuff, I'd have never have guessed the names. I know the sounds but names are harder to find. I do know the fret board but never though to find out what notes I was playing in the "chords", thanks for the info on doing that, it'll help a lot. Anyway, talk to ya'll a bit later.

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    TNFrank, I made another correction above. x357 is F-D-B. I don't know the context, but I guessed Dm6 based on the other chords in that group. It's also a G7 without a root. When I first did it I was thinking the top note was a Bb, but it's a B.



    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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    TNFrank wrote: "I know the sounds but names are harder to find."

    You have the important part down. You only need to know what their called if your trying to communicate about music. I didn't learn any theory until I had to try to explain to others what I was doing. For me, the learning process was to play what I heard in my head and on recordings and later figure out what it was and why it worked.




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    I've always had an ear for music. Guess it's genetic or something. My birth father played guitar in a band and I found out that a couple of my brothers also played guitar. My grandfather on my adopted mom's side of the family could play just about anything from what I've heard. I love playing and I think I'll always play something. I really love the mandolin, even more then the guitar or bass so I'll pertty much stick with it from here on out.

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    Registered User groveland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    If you are playing 2 or more notes, I think that is a chord
    Technically 2 notes is a harmony, 3 or more can be a chord. Plus, the fewer notes you have to identify the 'chord', the more things it can be. Context is everything. For example, try this: Give it a few notes and it will show you the many possibilities! Loads of fun!

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    Good link, here's something else I found on it.

    "The "Seventh" chord

    Description:

    The dominant seventh chord is the pivotal chord of most modern music. It consists of the root, major third, and a perfect fifth, and a dominant seventh. The dominant seventh chord is found at the fifth degree of the major (Ionian) scale, and the seventh degree of the minor (Aeolian) scale. mixolydian mode is a good choice for improvising on a dominant seventh chord, as well as blues scales (with a minor and major third). Altering any note of the dominant seventh chord a half step sharp or flat yields wonderful passing chords, and the dominant seventh chord and its variations tend to resolve well up a fourth or down a fifth."

    Stuff like this just makes me say "WHAAAAT? " Totally over my head, don't understand a word even though it's in english,LOL. I guess after playing as long as I have I should understand some of it but since I've always played by ear or TAB and never looked at theory much it's just really strange to me. Still, interesting site, guess I should look it over a bit more. Maybe I just might learn something.

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    If you're interested in jumping into the world of Music Theory the lessons at musictheory.net are a great place to start.

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    Registered User groveland's Avatar
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    Particularly misleading and over-generalized is "Altering any note of the dominant seventh chord a half step sharp or flat yields wonderful passing chords." #True, kindof. I was referring to a couple things in one mouthful, with less than perfect results: (a) you can lower any voice of a diminished 7 chord a half step and get a dom 7 chord, and (b) 7alt chords with their b9 #9 #11 and #13.

    Thanks for the heads up. #I'll have to make that clear in 1024 characters or less...

    <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>edit: I like what MusicTheory.net offers a lot as a primer. Fun trainer for sight reading, too.</span>




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    http://4stringchords.com/

    This page has a reverse chord find function

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    Quote Originally Posted by (Walter Newton @ May 06 2008, 15:39)
    If you're interested in jumping into the world of Music Theory the lessons at musictheory.net are a great place to start.
    Interesting, that kind of explains it to me a bit better. At least I've got a clue as to what a root, third and fifth is now,LOL. I'll have to study over that web site a bit more but it looks like it's pretty good at explaining it. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by (sopwith74 @ May 06 2008, 16:28)
    http://4stringchords.com/

    This page has a reverse chord find function
    Now this IS handy. I can see what I'm playing and then find out what chord it is, thanks, I've got this one bookmarked.




  20. #20
    Registered User groveland's Avatar
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    Note with the reverse chord find function, (a) your 2-note harmonies will not get names, and (b) if it says 'no chord' it's sometimes a real chord it doesn't know.




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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    played at the same time, 2 notes are often called Intervals,
    chords are at least 2 intervals between 3 notes. ,
    root to the other note, names of scale 0 as root the pair of strings
    in the course on the 8 string mandolin are Unisons , 0&gt;0
    0&gt;1 minor 2nd , 0&gt;2 Major 2nd .
    m2,M2, m3,M3, P4, P5, m6,M6, m7,M7 , 8va (octave)
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    played at the same time, 2 notes are often called Intervals,
    chords are at least 2 intervals between 3 notes. ,
    root to the other note, names of scale 0 as root the pair of strings
    in the course on the 8 string mandolin are Unisons , 0&gt;0
    0&gt;1 minor 2nd , 0&gt;2 Major 2nd .
    m2,M2, m3,M3, P4, P5, m6,M6, m7,M7 , 8va (octave)
    Not for nothin', mandroid, but I cannot make heads nor tails of this and I know theory.
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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    Registered User groveland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (jbmando @ May 07 2008, 15:18)
    Quote Originally Posted by
    played at the same time, 2 notes are often called Intervals,
    chords are at least 2 intervals between 3 notes. #,
    root to the other note, names of scale 0 as root the pair of strings
    in the course on the 8 string mandolin are Unisons , 0&gt;0
    0&gt;1 #minor 2nd , 0&gt;2 Major 2nd .
    m2,M2, m3,M3, P4, P5, m6,M6, m7,M7 , 8va (octave)
    Not for nothin', mandroid, but I cannot make heads nor tails of this and I know theory.
    It's mandroidal poetry. # Interpreted:

    "The distance between two notes is an interval. A chord has at least two intervals, so by definition a chord has at least 3 notes. If you consider the root of the chord as 0 (zero), the distance in half steps from the root to any other note of the scale is as follows:

    0 to 0 is a Unison, like a course on the 8 string mandolin, for example.
    0 to 1 is a minor second (m2)
    0 to 2 is a Major second (M2)
    0 to 3 is a minor third (m3)
    0 to 4 is a Major third (M3)
    0 to 5 is a Perfect Fourth (P4)
    [0 to 6 is a #4/b5... we missed that one]
    0 to 7 is a Perfect Fifth (P5)
    0 to 8 is a minor sixth (m6)
    0 to 9 is a Major sixth (M6)
    0 to 10 is a minor seventh (m7)
    0 to 11 is a Major seventh (M7)
    0 to 12 is an octave (8va)" #




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    Gezzz, what ever happen to just playing what sounds good, LOL.




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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Nothing happened to playing what sounds good. Just because your musical boundaries expand and you understand more of how and why the notes go together, the music you produce doesn't have to diminish in quality. Furthermore, sounding good is subjective. I submit to you that your xx27 chord, while certainly not unpleasant (assuming the mandolin is in tune) is not a usable chord for accompaniment except in a melodic drone-note situation, due to the fact that it is just an octave, with nothing to color the sound of the music. Move the 2 up to 6 and see what it sounds like. You have to remember that you stated that you were
    Quote Originally Posted by
    &lt;&lt;...playing along with songs on Bluegrass Junction and I'm finding chord patterns that seem to work well with the songs...&gt;&gt;
    Well,the recording that you are playing along with adds quite a bit to what you think you hear coming from yourself. I sing #great and take great breaks along with records. What I don't understand is when I sing or play the same songs by myself it doesn't sound nearly as good. It is hard to convince folks who have natural talent and are self taught, (and I AM ONE. Hear that. I was there and know that of which I speak) that learning the basics of theory will ENHANCE your musical experience, not hinder it. It is limited now by sheer ignorance, and I mean nothing negative by that, just "lack of knowledge."
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

    "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann

    "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

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