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Thread: Gibson mandolin repair and parts

  1. #51
    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    I remember being in the late John Zeidler's shop when John told me of folks wanting to buy his mandolin tailpiece. He said if folks wanted it, they could buy it as long as it was attached to his mandolin.
    Old Hometown, Cabin Fever String Band

  2. #52
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    In spite of all the above rationalizations and explanations for Gibson's seemingly erratic marketplace behaviour, I was personally involved in one of their recent marketing "hissy" fits. #They routinely sold the Gibson Grover tuners to small builders such as Ben Wilcox (BRW mandolins). #I ordered what became BRW #61 with Gibson gold Grovers with pearl buttons. #Ben later informed me that because of a marketing change, he could no longer obtain the Gibson Grovers. #It didn't make any sense to me that Gibson could feel threatened by a small builder and furthermore miss the opportunity to profit from his business, as they were not donating these tuners to small builders. #The good news is that I later purchased a set of Gibson Grover gold tuners with pearl buttons off our own Mandolin Cafe classifieds, so the mandolin is now as I wanted it to be - (they were removed from a Gibson). #They are excellent tuners but I am still mystified that Gibson initially declined an opportunity to make a profit from me on those tuners. #Are they trying corporately, to isolate themselves as mandolin world snobs, rather than being a happy and cooperative part of the mandolin community?
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  3. #53

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    It isn't too unusual for any fairly large company to act in an apparently illogical manner. In the case of the tuners, and a number of other instances, I'm thinking somebody sold a part they shouldn't have sold or they sold a part to someone they shouldn't have sold it to. The excrement hit the air conditioning and the fallout is nobody at the company will sell any part to anyone under any circumstance. This is the safe way for an employee to act.

    Gibson's P&L statement isn't going to be affected by the sale or non-sale of one set of tuners.

  4. #54
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    To paraphrase an earlier post
    ... a VW dealer is NOT allowed to work on a pre 1979 VW....
    Where did you get that bull ?
    A manufacturer cannot prohbit a dealer from working on anything they choose.
    Dealerships are independent businesses
    As a former retail service manager and a former factory field rep I can attest to that with some assurance

    As to Gibson not supplying parts.. I agree it is their choice Unlike Martin who will willingly sell parts except for labels and decals and some decorative specialty bits ( some woods in short supply) ... which require special circumstances or an authorized repair shop

    Part of the difference here is that Martin actually makes most of their parts...

  5. #55

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    Jeff, I got that bull from Volkswagen of America. BTW, I'm surprised you didn't know that VW dealerships are franchises.

  6. #56
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    Part of the difference between Martin and Gibson is that the Martin company has had consistent ownership and business strategies since it's inception, as opposed to Gibson which has change hands and strategies numerous times since it was founded.
    Also, Martin has decided to do one thing really well...make high quality acoustic guitars (although it had some missteps in the past). Gibson has its fingers in lots of corners of the instrument biz. It's a testament to the dedication and efforts of Gibson/OAI employees that the quality of their mandolins and banjos is so high. It doesn't appear to be the result of any Gibson corporate focus.
    John Kasley
    Williamsburg, VA

  7. #57
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (jaka @ April 16 2008, 22:24)
    Part of the difference between Martin and Gibson is that the Martin company has had consistent ownership and business strategies since its inception, ..., Martin has decided to do one thing really well...make high quality acoustic guitars (although it had some missteps in the past).
    I agree with you overall, but I've been bewildered in the last few years by the slew of Martin models that have been pumped out, some with "formica" tops, decorated with cowboy scenes and Felix the Cat and who knows what else.

    When I bought my first Martin in the '60's, I think they made four or five dreadnaught models. #Now there are probably 40-50 if you count all the "signature" and "vintage" and "special edition" models that are issued almost monthly. #Plus Martin's doing so much more with J, OM, and 000 models than they ever did.

    My friend the Martin dealer says that the company's requiring its dealers to buy some of the non-wood, "art" top instruments, so he has a "175th anniversary" laminated-top model, with a portrait of ol' C.F. Martin, and a black one with Felix the Feline dancing under the soundhole. #I won't share with you his opinion of these as acoustic instruments, but I think you can infer that they ain't no herringbone D-28's.

    I surely don't begrudge Martin their success, and if having a "complete line" of guitars, some great and some, well, marginal, is working for them economically, more power to them. #But part of me longs for the days of "doing one thing really well...making high quality acoustic guitars." #With all due respect to Felix the Cat...
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  8. #58
    Registered User man dough nollij's Avatar
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    It makes a lot of sense to me that big name makers like Gibson and Martin should go to great lengths to protect the value of their names. Trying to order a fingerboard or tailpiece is a one-off, unusual request, handled by the repair department, not the international purchasing and marketing folks. They no doubt have hundreds of neck blanks and fingerboards (and parts like that), but it makes a lot of sense to me that they limit distribution of those parts to their own authorized repair centers.

    Having recently ordered a custom instrument, I'm curious to hear what some of you think of this scenario: varnished instruments are generally WAY more expensive than laquer finished ones. Since almost all of the cost of varnished finishes is in the labor, I wondered about the possibility of ordering a custom mando (Collings, Weber, et al) unfinished, and varnishing it myself. I would get the benefit of hand-voicing and top notch construction, but would apply the elbow grease of french polishing it myself. It then occurred to me that the maker would be very unlikely to go with that plan, though they could make good money on the transaction. If I were to order an unfinished Weber Fern (for example), then put a nasty, amateurish finish on it, I would be creating a monster. People would see it and infer that Weber (for example) puts out shoddily finished instruments. If it were me (as Gibson, Collings, Weber, etc.) I wouldn't let someone possibly trash my name value by adding their amateur modification to an unfinished instrument. Is it any different with a headstock blank, a fretboard, or other integral part? Something to think about.

  9. #59
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    I think companies should protect their interests and restrict some materials to the public at large... Gibson chooses to be a bit tighter than Martin.. can you imagine Gibson selling #F-5 #kits ?? # #


    Having not only read but assisted in writing dealer franchise agreements and signed up auto dealers as a District Manager .... yes I am fully aware that VW is a franchise...and franchises are privately owned... including VW

    To follow up, I called a dealer and former client.. #They can and do work on anything.... there is nothing in the dealer agreement that prohibits them from working on older product..
    May I suggest that you have them recite the page and line in the dealer agreement that prohibits the dealer from working on older product..
    No dealer agreement I have ever seen contains anything remotely like that.. which would include # a few Euro manufacturers ,Japanese as well as American.




  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by (jaka @ April 16 2008, 22:24)
    Part of the difference between Martin and Gibson is that the Martin company has had consistent ownership and business strategies since it's inception, as opposed to Gibson which has change hands and strategies numerous times since it was founded.
    I think if you read the history of Martin you'd conclude that the business strategies weren't all that consistent. They have been pretty close to the end a few times due to very inconsistent business strategies. That isn't uncommon in any business that has been around as long as Martin has.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  11. #61
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    Another distinction #mentioned briefly is that Gibson has had many reincarnations. #Specifically there has been no GIBSON, family or otherwise ,involvement since 1908.

    Only in recent history did Martin have an "outsider" as a corporate member ie the vp of operations ( from a bank background no less)

    Gibson has been a true corporation for many years.. I think some of us remember Norlin.. they also owned parking lots.. seems like a good match to instruments.. # ( parking lot pickers)

    Update:

    April 18 8:26 Am PST

    Per VW of America Customer Service

    " There is nothing in the dealer agreement that prohibits an individual dealer from working on older product. If they have the tools and parts resources they are free to do as they wish. They are independent dealers, it is their call. Volkswagen of America has no restrictions on what a dealer may or may not work on. They must be willing and equipped to service and repair all Volkswagens currently in production and/or covered by warranty or special recall. "




  12. #62
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    jaka: By way of contrast, I have on my desk a rotary dial phone manufactured by Western Electric for the Bell System companies in the 1930's. What do you think are the chances that I could call the current AT&T (whose predecessor company owned Western Electric) and obtain a replacement handset or even a reach a person who cared?
    Jaka that is a pretty poor analogy with all due respect. #

    The first Gibson F-5 built in 1922 is essentially the same as a 2008 Gibson F-5 MM. #Certainly you cannot say that about that old rotary phone and new ditigal with caller ID and all the other features. #The analogy makes no sense does it? #For the mandolins all the parts are are the same for the phones none of them are.

    Why do you still have that old thing on your desk? #
    Bernie
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    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  13. #63
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    I have this phone on my desk for two reasons:
    1) I like the retro look.
    2) It works when the power is out, provided Verizon's battery backup is still working. This comes in handy during the occasional hurricane in our neck of the woods. OK,it's an imperfect analogy. On the other hand, by definition, no analogy is perfect. The point I was trying to make: The successor company to AT&T no longer supplies parts for this device. (although there are individuals/businesses that do offer original or reproduction replacement parts). I don't expect, nor do I think others expect, AT&T to supply parts for this old phone.
    Gibson has had many suppliers of various parts over the years, I don't expect the current Gibson company to stock replacement parts for old models. Why would they? I can't think of a good business reason why they would. Just as I can't think of a good business reason why the current AT&T would stock replacement parts for my Western Electric Model 302.



    John Kasley
    Williamsburg, VA

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