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Thread: Used values

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    Fret less, play more! NoNickel's Avatar
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    I recently had a fellow answer my Cafe classified starting out by saying that his friends told him that a used instrument should be priced at 50% of its retail price, and asked me why my mandolin was so much more valuable that I thought I could get more. Am I missing something? Was this fellow misinformed or is it me? I would surely think that you don't take that much of a hit just by taking delivery. My price is 72% of the new price, and the mandolin is still basically new.

    Your thoughts please.
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    Registered User bradeinhorn's Avatar
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    highly misinformed - that is a very vague statement which may be correct for some instruments, but totally wrong for others. newness doesn't really have anything to do with it though, just market demand (newness may of course drive that, likewise condition and/or upgrades).
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    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    50% of retail works ok for Martin guitars. But it doesn't work for most mandolins. My rule of thumb is a used instrument should cost about 80% of what a new one would cost, give or take a little and depending on the market for that instrument.

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    Registered User Ken Olmstead's Avatar
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    It is always worth what someone will pay for it AND what someone will take for it. 50% of retail is a value that a lot of mass produced items seem to go for but is by no means a template for used sales. I doubt you would turn a $25k Gilchrist for $12,500. If so...SOLD!!
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    Registered User Jonathan Peck's Avatar
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    If you sell to a store (like guitar center) or shop, they will likely give you up to 50%. They will then turn around and sell it for up to 75%. If you sell privately, you will see the difference in your own pocket. Some instruments do hold their value and others increase in value, but as a general rule, you could start around 75% for a manufactured instrument in very good cared for and maintained condition.
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    Registered User Greg H.'s Avatar
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    It sounds like your responders friends are more used to dealing with cars than mandolins. If I bought a brand new Daley vintage model for $9,000 and two weeks later put it up for sale for $8,300 (with no dings etc.) that would seem perfectly reasonable IMHO. So, if your mandolin is in 'like new' condition then 72% of retail value seems Ok to me. The loss from buying a used instrument is predomintaly lack of warrenty, which for some people would be a major consideration.

    My thinking would be leave it up. If someone wants it great. If you get no takers then you can consider dropping the price then.
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    I would say that his friends are mistaken. Maybe he should buy the instrument from his friends. Talk is cheap. I guess he had to give it a try anyway.



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    <First posting>
    The 50% business is a general practice in RETAILING and basically has nothing to do with private transactions or with the real value of an instrument. The way it works is that on trade-ins, only one-quarter the retail value is offered in trade to the seller, and then the item taken in is resold at one-half the original retail value. Those percentages, by the way, are sometimes based on catalogue, or full retail price, sometimes on on actual street value. Moreover, this practice has more to do with hardware (cameras, amplifiers, and even factory electric guitars), things that theoretically wear out or break down. Hand-made wooden musical instruments may not fall into this practice at all. Consider what a Gibson mandolin cost in 1923 and what it costs today.

    Bob

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    Registered User chip's Avatar
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    I think it all depends on the individual item. If an item is hand made and has had a waiting list for years then that rule of 50% would be null and void and in fact the mandolin might even be worth more than the original price since you have to wait years and years for one.
    On the other hand if you bought a new mass produced mandolin in the $600 range then the 50% rule might apply as they are so plentiful and pumped out by the 100's a month if not thousands out of the Pacific Rim. IMO

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    List or SRP suggested retail price, is one set of numbers, street price is another set.
    kind of restating Chip, ...
    now the Pac Rim music gear and rapidly obsolete electronics is one thing, but the work of highly esteemed Hand crafted luthiers works of art musical instruments and the much sought after famous brands will be on an entirely different level.
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    Not trying to be cynical here, but as a previous poster said it is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. So many factors involved here it becomes very speculative. As more people are willing to pay the high dollars, the less speculative a price becomes.
    mikeguy

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    Moderator JEStanek's Avatar
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    It's worth what you're willing to sell it for, no less. If a potential buyer doesn't want to pay your price then let them move on! If you're unable to sell your mando at the requested price, perhaps you're too high.

    If I were to sell an instrument used I would compare my used price with those seen online (Mandolin Brothers, Elderly, Mandolin Store, Cafe Classifieds, etc) and price similarly based upon condition.

    Anyone can ask for a lower price, only y o u can agree to it.

    Jamie
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    Registered User chip's Avatar
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    Actually Jamie, I have to disagree with that statement of: "it's worth what your selling it for". If there's guides available showing values on particular instruments then someone has to or should equate that fact into price and value. Same with what other retailers are selling similar instruments for. If Person A is selling a JamieMandolin for $1000 and Retailer B,C,D,E and F is selling an identical JamieMandolin for $2000 then it seems that the $1000 Jamie should be worth more than what he/she are selling for. What do you think? Even though value may be subjective there are variables that should be taken into consideration when determining a market value. More than likely there is a history of that particular brand of instrument and what they have sold for on the 2nd hand market. To me that would determine worth because of past selling history...(I think I should be practicing)....

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (NoNickel @ Feb. 20 2008, 16:43)
    I recently had a fellow answer my Cafe classified starting out by saying that his friends told him that a used instrument should be priced at 50% of its retail price, and asked me why my mandolin was so much more valuable that I thought I could get more....
    I'll be honest, I wouldn't have honored the question with a reply.
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    Fret less, play more! NoNickel's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies. The Cafe is the best place to get feedback, help, advice and ... well, its just the best!
    NoNickel

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (chip @ Feb. 20 2008, 21:15)
    Even though value may be subjective there are variables that should be taken into consideration when determining a market value.
    There are lots of variables that should be looked at in setting an offering price. But whether that offering price represents the theoretical 'market value' depends on whether someone is willing to pay that price.

    And that crazy number, the 'worth' only makes sense as the price agreed to by both buyer and seller.

    If someone is telling me that what I am selling is available elsewhere at a lower price, I have to wonder why he is even bothering to talk to me. Go and get it.

    And if I have priced something at what I want to get out of it and someone buys it at that price, and it turns out it is selling elsewhere for more - I don't obsess about the money I 'might have made'. I got my price, I may not have gotten the higher price. I am happy.



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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (MikeEdgerton @ Feb. 20 2008, 21:41)
    I'll be honest, I wouldn't have honored the question with a reply.
    I am tempted to agree.
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    Registered User trevor's Avatar
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    I'm with Shaun. We work on 80% of current new price if in as new condition.

    On a trade or commission/consignment sale we give the seller 75% of that, so they get 60% of new price. We have to pay VAT (UK sales tax) out of our share (and all our other business costs including my $200 000 a year income) so we get a bit over 20%.



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    It is difficult for me to understand why a seller would "refuse to honor the question with a reply" when the query is coming from a potential buyer. Creating and maintaining dialogue is necessary in the sales process; furthermore, for the seller to have the opportunity to "explain" to a buyer the rationale for a certain pricing level is the essence of "marketing". Allowing emotion to stand in the way of a potential sale is not prudent.

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    Chip I understand your point and it is a good one. For me when thinning the herd, a mandolin I feel I may be willing to part with, I'll do my research and and sell it for what I feel it's worth to me. If I can't get what I want I'll hold on to it.

    Jamie
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    Quote Originally Posted by (boatman @ Feb. 21 2008, 06:32)
    It is difficult for me to understand why a seller would "refuse to honor the question with a reply" when the query is coming from a potential buyer. Creating and maintaining dialogue is necessary in the sales process; furthermore, for the seller to have the opportunity to "explain" to a buyer the rationale for a certain pricing level is the essence of "marketing". Allowing emotion to stand in the way of a potential sale is not prudent.
    Agreed. The interested party asked why the price didn't meet his expectation based on the information he had (opinions from friends). The answer may include the additional information he needs to make a better assessment. Maybe he will even go back and educate his friends.
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    Personally I would never pay 75 or 80% for something used that for 20% more I could by new. Therefore I don't buy used.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by (brady712 @ Feb. 21 2008, 10:25)
    Personally I would never pay 75 or 80% for something used that for 20% more I could by new. Therefore I don't buy used.
    If it were a $200 mandolin I might agree, but then on the other hand, 20-25% taken off the new price of a luthier-built instrument could save a buyer thousands of dollars.



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    Registered User David Houchens's Avatar
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    My rule of thumb is when they try to beat you down, RAISE the price. David

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    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (jasonh847 @ Feb. 21 2008, 12:08)
    If it were a $200 mandolin I might agree, but then on the other hand, 20-25% taken off the new price of a luthier-built instrument could save a buyer thousands of dollars.
    Not to mention getting it into your hands without a long wait. Sometimes a higher used price is money well spent.

    In fairness, Brady did say; "Personally I would never pay 75 or 80% for something used that for 20% more I could by new.", and that implies that he can readily get a new one.

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