Do you really play both strings?

[medley]

I am still in the early stages of learning, and am battling consistenly hitting both strings as I play a melody. Just wondering if I ought to move forward in my book instruction, or stop advancing until I am hitting both strings on every note in a melody.

I am learning Angeline the Baker, and it sounds good even if I don't hit both strings every note, but I don't want to pickup a bad habit if that is what it would be.

Thoughts?

[MandoBen]

You might need to sit down with a teacher to learn the proper picking techniques, find one you are comfortable with and hit the strings hard enough to follow through both strings.

[JeanM]

In addition to getting pointers on technique, have you experimented with different picks? #For me it's easier to hit both strings if I use a very thick pick.

[JeffD]

Yes I would think you want to hit both strings every time. I have seen it said you should pick through both and come to rest on the next pair of strings.

[mandolirius]

<I am still in the early stages of learning, and am battling consistenly hitting both strings as I play a melody. Just wondering if I ought to move forward in my book instruction, or stop advancing until I am hitting both strings on every note in a melody.>

Definitely move forward, imo. I'm basing this on a few years of teaching mandolin. For some people, it just takes time to be able to do it consistently. For someone who's never operated a flatpick before, there are a lot of things going on. Pick grip, pick thickness (as someone pointed out), right hand and arm position, alternating pickstrokes, and that's not even mentioning the left hand.

I can appreciate the opposite view but I feel as long as the student is aware that this is what they need to working towards (I mean, it's a double string instrument for a reason) then they shouldn't: a) panic and/or b) hold up their progress in other areas.

[Geoff B]

I've found that I percus the string more than "pick" it. It is just like games involving contact: move *through* the object being struck (baseball, golf ball, wide-reciever, Mike Tyson etc...) even when playing softly, you can coax more tone out if you move the pick through the string (as opposed to across/over it). That's what I've found, at least. But you are not alone and many of my brand new students have similar issues. Definitely keep it in mind, but don't stop other progress that may come easier...

[Peter Hackman]

if you have any doubts whether you hit both strings or not, you'll know when you break one of them!

[Paul Kotapish]

I try to pluck 'em both on every note, regardless of the pick direction or speed of the tune. Sometimes I get close to that goal.

[John of Patcham]

I've found that I percus the string more than "pick" it. #It is just like games involving contact: move *through* the object being struck (baseball, golf ball, wide-reciever, Mike Tyson etc...) even when playing softly, you can coax more tone out if you move the pick through the string (as opposed to across/over it). #That's what I've found, at least. #But you are not alone and many of my brand new students have similar issues. #Definitely keep it in mind, but don't stop other progress that may come easier...

That's an interesting way of describing it. #I'm a relative newcomer, started playing last August, fiddler previously but new to picking. I've been experimenting with different picks and different methods of holding the pick trying to get a good strong tone. #

I've been making some progress with that but the other week I realised that I was mostly only getting one string properly sounding. #So now I'm working on widening the arc of my wrist movement, hitting the strings with more velocity so the pick drives through both of them.

The other thing I've started to do is to play along to music percussively. #I just muffle the strings and play the rhythm of the tune on one string. #That way you can really concentrate on what your right hand is doing and you can feel the effect of crossing both strings.

[Celtic Saguaro]

Yes, brush firmly *through* both strings equally rather plucking up on the near one or mashing down on the far one from the start of the stroke.

But I agree with mandolirious. It's something you can be patient with as long as the player is aware of the problem.

[mandodan1960]

I like the different exercises in Mike Marshall's latest DVD. Mandolin (fundamentals for all players)#1. another good starting point is John McGann's (Sound Fundamentals) DVD. Both good resources for a beginner. For the price of two lessons you have a ready reference of good basic technique. Recently I was working through Mike's DVD and discovered how tense my right forearm was (pinching the mando to my gut) I recalled how John McGann says to move your forearm (slightly) depending on what string is being plucked. I loosened up on my forearm and "Bam" I was making progress immediately. I don't get much out of DVD's that teach particular songs but I have found them valuable when it comes to technique. NFI
Good Luck

[medley]

Original poster here.

Last night I received my order from Elderly that had about ten different picks in there.

Tried the heavier picks, and problem went away for the most part. Thank you all for the posts!

[pickinpete]

I like the different exercises in Mike Marshall's latest DVD. Mandolin (fundamentals for all players)#1.

I dont believe anybody hits em both every time. I have mikes fundamental dvd and he talks about people not playing through both strings and then in the next excersize, I caught him single stringing a couple of notes. It happens, especially on difficult or fast passages, I dont believe anybody hits em all, all the time. JMO

[jtauxe]

This is odd. I never even thought about deliberately picking both strings. And, frankly, I don't think it's really something to worry about, and I doubt if I do hit both all the time. Even if you don't actually pluck the second string, it does resonate with the one that is plucked -- so there's your unique double string sound, regardless.

I'd not worry about it, and just carry on.

[UnityGain]

Here are my thoughts,

When you only hit one string the other one does vibrate, but it is more or less robbing the energy from the other string in order to vibrate sympathetically. If both strings are being hit they both contribute all of their energy to making sound and tone.

One thing that I have figued out is that as much as possible you should never be plucking strings away from the body of the mandolin. Pick strokes should generally be directed accross the strings with a slight bias into the instrument. I doubt your doing this purposefully, but I find that I do it too much on my upstrokes by accident. My picking motion includes some wrist rotation, so for half of my pick attack the pick is moving slightly toward the body of the instument and the second half moves slightly away from the instrument. I've found that when I strike the string during the towards the body motion the pick hits the first string and then continues down towars the instrument and contacts the second string. If make contact during the away fase of my pick motion the 1st string gets hit but then the motion of my hand makes the pick want to slide off the string into the air away from the instrument and misses the second string. I find this to be much more of a problem when I am doing upstrokes.

Hope this helps, and I should mention that I'm not 100% sure that I have proper picking technique either. So this may not be exactly right but it works for me.

[John of Patcham]

I'm a relative newcomer to this so please feel free to put me right, but here's how I view this:

1. #The greater the momentum of the pick the less it will be deflected as it hits the strings. #Momentum is mass times velocity. #For mass use a heavy pick. #For velocity start the stroke some distance away from the string so the pick has reached a good speed by the time it hits the string.

2. #If the pick is too flexible or your grip is too loose then it will still deflect and miss the second string irrespective of point 1.

3. #Pick angle in the front/back plane should be as close as possible to perpendicular to the front of the instrument so that downstrokes and upstrokes have an even chance of hitting both strings.

4. #I'm not so sure about pick angle in the left/right plane. #Some say you should slightly lead with the left edge (assuming a RH player). #Others say you should hit the string flat on. #The bevel on your pick probably has a bearing on what works best here.

This is all assuming that you are aiming to play predominantly with an up/down motion of the wrist, rather than in/out wrist rotation as mentioned in the previous post.

[jtauxe]

I hate to be picky... ...but

Momentum is mass times the square of velocity
and
the mass would be that of your hand, not the little pick itself.

Carry on. Sorry. I'm an engineer. I can't help it.

[John of Patcham]

I hate to be picky... ...but

Momentum is mass times the square of velocity
and
the mass would be that of your hand, not the little pick itself.

Carry on. Sorry. I'm an engineer. I can't help it.

Yep, fair point. #But either way the velocity is important. #And a heavy pick will be a stiff pick, so I guess more to do with point 2 than point 1.

[Bryan T]

I hate to be picky... ...but

Momentum is mass times the square of velocity
and
the mass would be that of your hand, not the little pick itself.

Carry on. Sorry. I'm an engineer. I can't help it.

Momentum is proportional to velocity, not the square of velocity. Perhaps you were thinking of kinetic energy?

Bryan

[jk245]

The brushing of the two strings in the stroke is sometimes the uncontentious effort to produce a soft or strong note. When you are stroking rapidly in an up and down motions, and producing a soft note, it is likely that you are only using one sting in each direction. On the other hand if there is a pronounced strong note then you are likely using the two tandem strings. I never really paid any attention to it, only, I try to obtain the required sound output.

[Jim Broyles]

When you are stroking rapidly in an up and down motions, and producing a soft note, it is likely that you are only using one sting in each direction.

I would tend to be doubtful of this. I can't miss one string unless I try, especially when "stroking rapidly in an up and down motion."

[Choupique]

I just started this mandolin thing about 2 months ago. I've played cajun music for years now (accordion and fiddle), but only recently started in earnest on the mandolin.

I had the same question about hitting 2 strings at one time. In theory, if you only hit one string, the other will vibrate (assuming it is tuned correctly) as it is being excited at it's resonant frequency (sympathetic vibration). However, the total volume that is being produced by the body is affected by the amount of energy imparted to the strings from the stroke. You can impart a lot more energy if you hit 2 strings. All that being said, I still ain't quite got it.

I've attempted to watch many videos of many different players and I noticed that they don't all always hit both strings. I was beginning to wonder if it was optional.

Jesse

[Jim Broyles]

I would say that it isn't considered optional and that playing only one string at a time is rarely intentional. I've never seen a video in which I was able to observe a player playing only one string at times. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I've just never seen it.

[Gerard Dick]

If you attack the string with the edge of the pick instead of the flat, the strings glide down the edge and pop off of the tip. It required that you hold the pick at a slight angle to the plane of the strings. This is how the picks acquire that "speed bevel" over time and use. It also makes tremolo easier as the pick is not deflected laterally by the strings.

[Choupique]

THAT'S THE KIND OF INFORMATION I NEED!! Bien merci, Gerrymando. I've tried several different attack points and arm/hand positions, but it was never consistant. I really appreciate this forum and the discussions. It has been a great help.