A post about what people think of the mandolin

[Austin Koerner]

I don't want to offend anyone.. but I've been thinking about it lately. I've had a lot of people (mainly friends) that came up to me and said something like "I actually didn't know ANYTHING about the mandolin before I met you", or "what is that thing?", or "jazz mandolin.. hahahaha!".

Yesterday I was looking for mando lessons, and I came upon this website for a music school in NC. It had a 'banjo, mandolin, and dulcimer' section, so I read about it. It said "if you like to play any of these fun instrument...". It made me feel like the mando wasn’t a legitimate instrument. I'm not going to stop playing (Of course!), but it seems like people don't need mandolins in anything besides bluegrass.

Also, why are banjos more well known than mandolins?

I'm very sorry if I'm not supposed to post stuff like this, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me that these people are just dumb.

[Kevin Briggs]

I'm not sure what your post is asking, but... I'll try to provide a response for the sake of discussion.

I think in mainstream music the mandolin is not a featured instrument. I mean, sometimes it is in some songs and in a few bands, I guess, but never all of the time. Mainstream music is built around the electric guitar, and on the acoustic guitar in a secondary sort of way. That being the case, the mandolin is often an instrument that mainstream musicians will pick up to spice things up.

I used to play in an alt. country band, and I am a mandolin player (obviously). I played a Breedlove Spirit with a pick up and plugged in every time. The funny thing is, the guys in the band didn't give a hoot about how that nice mandolin sounded. They just thought it was "cool" that they had a mandolin player in the group. They are my friends, but they are just so conventional in their approach to music that they don't vie wthe mandolin as anything but a gimmick. I eventually quit the band, mostly because the mandolin was inaudible next to drums, two guitars, and a bass.

So, I think the mandolin can be viewed as a "fun" instrument by people who look at it from that perspective. It's sort of ironic, because I think we can all agree that we think it's fun, but we mean it's fun, challenging, beautoful, mystical, etc. When an official program calls it "fun," it makes it seem like it's just a toy.

The bottom line is, the mandolin is easy enough to get started on, but it's hard to get good at playing it.

[Klaus Wutscher]

Yes, it is a problem. For anybody trying to make a living outside of bluegrass playing the mandolin it is almost a dealbreaker. I´m not saying it is impossible, but it´s tough.

Sad fact is, you don´t really NEED the mandolin in most genres, and while it is nice to have, most players get hired because they can bring something else to the party, like great singing or a minivan:p

As far as ignorance, don´t get me started...:angry:

[FLmando]

I'm new to the mandolin, only having really discovered it about a year ago. I had of course heard about them, but thought they were just rarely used guitar alternatives in older classical music. The only time I had actually heard one was in Respighi's Roman Festivals, which has a movement highlighting it. So yeah, I didn't know much about it. I was quite surprised to see it's used a lot more than I thought! I did just assume the banjo was a bluegrass instrument because my father had one and played it at one time, and that was the sound I was used to hearing when I thought of it.

I wouldn't say those people are dumb, but that is a rather off putting description. Of course the instruments should be fun, but from what you've written it sounds like they're making it out to be a toy. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong.

At least you don't have to tell people you play the tuba. I'm always getting those clearly forced positive responses. "Oh, that's nice." We can do a lot more than play oompah parts! But that's a topic for another message board all together.

[JEStanek]

These are legitimate feelings to have. Who's to deny you your feelings. How you let them shape your behavior is up to you.

Why would anyone play an instrument that isn't fun? Who wants to take up the lip splitting agonyophone?

I wouldn't call the people who asked you these questions dumb. Calling them dumb kills the conversation. They may be ignorant of what the mandolin can do and be used in. Ignorance can be fixed by education. Since the mandolin is not a mainstream instrument, we - the players- must be ambassadors to the world around us for what it can do. Take those questions and statements and turn them into opportunities to open a person's ears to blues, jazz, folk, classical and world music that can be made on the mandolin. There are many people who own and play mandos who don't even play bluegrass!

Banjo's may be more famous (in America) because it's used in a few more styles than the mando? louder more cutting in the music it's played in? I dunno... Perhaps I don't care too much about the popularity... or else I'ld be playing guitar!
Jamie

[billhay4]

Well, you're not going to talk people into understanding or liking the mandolin. It's music -- meant to be played and heard. So, play and let them hear what the instrument is about.
Bill

[steve V. johnson]

Klaus wrote, "For anybody trying to make a living outside of bluegrass playing the mandolin it is almost a dealbreaker."

Well... yes and ... not really, too. #There are lots of traditional and acoustic music 'worlds' where a synthesizer, guitar amplifier and, well... yes, tubas # #are much more rare and mysterious than mandolins.

Mandolina aren't just for bluegrass any more.

And, yeah, mandolins are unusual, odd, or obscure to many people, so thanks for breaking the ground with your friends, Popo! Teach 'em well, and keep yer chin up!

stv

[Jonathan Peck]

The grateful dead had a huge following back in the day. I'm always amazed at how many people know the mandolin, especially here in the north east (home of the NY Giants woot!). When I ask how they knew that, the answer is always Garcia and Grisman.

While the banjo has become sort of a stereotype of country folk (Deliverence, Beverly Hillbillies etc..), I think people recognize the sound of the mandolin more than they realize. It's everywhere...TV commercials, cartoons, movies, TV shows.

[mandolirius]

<Also, why are banjos more well known than mandolins?>

Foggy Mtn. Breakdown, Dueling Banjos and the theme from Beverly Hillbillies. The banjo has been featured in mainstream culture in a way the mandolin hasn't.

[Chris Biorkman]

A few years ago I made the decision that I was going to get back into playing mandolin after about a ten year break. I was playing guitar at the time. I placed an ad in Craigslist trying to sell off some of my gear. Anyways, a guy responded to the ad and told me that he wanted to take a look at an American Strat that I was selling. When he came over, he asked me why I was selling and I told him that I had played mandolin growing up and that I wanted to get back into it. He laughed and told me that mandolin was a "hilarious" instrument.

He then proceeded to tell me that he had about ten guitars, but that he didn't actually play. I thought that was much more hilarious than the mandolin could ever be.

[sunburst]

The way I see it, these things are serious:

food
water
shelter
health

I think "serious music" is an oxymoron. What's wrong with mandolin being fun?

[Jim Rowland]

I think a lot of people hear the mando in various musical situations and enjoy it either a little or a lot,but do no identify the sound with the instrument. This is not unusual. I observed this phenomenon years ago when I was in radio. Since I was the night guy,I usually got stuck with breaking in the new hires,most of whom were painfully young. We used a middle of the road format at night in those days,and I was shocked to learn that the newbies could not recognize the various instruments that stood out in big band arrangements. Different instruments come into vogue in different time periods,mainly due to media exposure of some kind. In the late fifties,believe it or not,music teachers were besieged by an avalanche of kids wanting to learn the accordion. Most of the kids were shocked and disappointed to hear that they should study piano first. It was all because of Contino. Don't remember him do you?

[Jkf_Alone]

Unless you are making a living playing music, instruments ARE toys. just like motorcycles (if you dont use them as your main transportation), boats, golf clubs, sports cars, anything that is a hobby. Johns post above really nailed it.

some people play music to be respected, and to a certain degree, the non music playing public think music is a magic thing reserved for those few people with special connections in their brain.

I play music because i enjoy it, because i can serve GOD and others with it, and because golf is boring. why worry if people think your instrument is a toy, just have fun with it, and others will want to have fun with you.

[kyken]

I played on stage in Las Vegas for 5 years, the bass. My dad played guitar and when he had had enough of Vegas, I had to take over his position. My kids were playing fiddle and were very good at it. We were in the show Splash, at the Riviera. anyway, when I took over his place, I played the mandolin. when all the members of the live band at Splash heard me, after a few weeks, they said" why don't you get rid of that ukelele and get you a guitar?" well, I did, but they really didn't have any appreciation for the mandolin did they?

[catmandu2]

I think "serious music" is an oxymoron. What's wrong with mandolin being fun?

How about the whole Viennese school and serial and atonal music? This isn't a whole lot of "fun" for me .

I regard my instruments as tools for the work I do, which only "pays" monetarily occasionally. It does pay, however, in many other ways.

[Ken Olmstead]

I was rereading the Grisman article in the first Fretboard Journal last night and Evan Marshall was referring to David's Loar Mandolin. He made the comment that Mr. Loar was not designing a bluegrass instrument obviously since that music had not been invented yet. He was designing what was in his mind the ultimate Classical mandolin (Evan's words not mine.) Unfortunately, the timeliness of this incredible machine was too late as the banjo rage had taken over the mandolin fad.

I also play tenor banjo (another member of the "dead instrument society") and I am constantly educating folks about the difference in that style (jazz) and what was played in the movie Deliverance. The tenor and plectrum banjos don't have a current reference as strong as Bluegrass is to the mandolin. The best I can hope for is they remember Shakeys Pizza! I was speaking with George Gruhn and we were discussing this very issue and he made the comment that if the Beatles had recorded a Tenor Banjo on "When I'm Sixty-four," (very appropriate tune for that instrument) the banjo would have enjoyed a huge shot in the arm just like the mandolin did with bluegrass.

I personally like the education piece of playing these instruments and continuing to keep them in front of an appreciative audience. I think ALL instruments are fun and legitimate tools of expression. Depending on what one does with them and the acceptance with the general public will determine how generally well known they are.

If you look at the fingerstle guitar world right now you will see a renewed interest in the Harp Guitar, which is long over due in my opinion. Mandolins had their comeback in the 90's and Ukeleles seem to be having their moment now. It all comes around. Long live the Harpsichord!!!

[allenhopkins]

Norman Blake once said that in "mainstream" Nashville recording, if you pulled a mandolin out of its case, the producers acted as if you'd pulled out a rattlesnake.

Mandolin is a minority instrument. #We enjoy that sometimes, as members of an exclusive club, an in-group that feels slightly superior to all the "muggles" who DON'T GET IT. #Doesn't bother me that the mandolin's not more popular; I know it has been, in the late 19th century when catalogs were full of mandolins in all price ranges, and music stores full of mandolin "methods" and music books. #There are fads in music -- remember when three out of four pop-rock bands had a synthesizer? #Mandolins crop up from time to time, and then we get all excited -- "Look, Paul McCartney's playing one!"

Right now, mandolin's a niche instrument, very popular and featured in bluegrass, often heard as an "accent" in country music, occasionally appearing in rock and string jazz. #There's a dedicated and active classical mandolin community. #When I perform with mandolin, especially the "off" mandos like my mandolinetto, mandola, OM or mandocello, I often get asked "what's that?" and it doesn't bother me. #I get the same questions with Autoharp, concertina, Dobro, any instrument out of the current mainstream.

And, by the way, if you think we court self-esteem issues because our instrument's less known, we're in infinitely better shape than the ukulele players. #I post frequently on Flea Market Music, a large uke website, and ukulele players there are often ridiculed by audiences who won't accept the uke as a serious instrument. #Had there been a mandolin version of Tiny Tim, we'd be in much bigger trouble.

[gnelson651]

I also play tenor banjo (another member of the "dead instrument society") and I am constantly educating folks about the difference in that style (jazz) and what was played in the movie Deliverance. The tenor and plectrum banjos don't have a current reference as strong as Bluegrass is to the mandolin. The best I can hope for is they remember Shakeys Pizza!

Hey, I remember going to Shakey's Pizza Friday nights with my parents when I was knee high to a grasshooper. Can't forget the banjo and piano player! I loved looking through the window to the kitchen watching them making pizzas.

Sure does bring back some good memories. #

Now, back to oour program:

I agree that the banjo got more exposure with Hillbillies, Foggy Mt and Dueling Banjos. I know that I wanted to learn the banjo because of it. But today, Chris Thile with Nickle Creek, along with Compton on #the "Brother..." album has brought the mandolin a little more manistream.

Unless you are making a living playing music, instruments ARE toys. just like motorcycles (if you dont use them as your main transportation), boats, golf clubs, sports cars, anything that is a hobby. Johns post above really nailed it.

I don't agree that the mandolin is a toy just because it is hobby (although my wife may agree). Making music for others or yourself to enjoy is a lot different than getting on your motorcycle to ride in the wind. One can be shared, the other is self indolence.

[mandolirius]

<I agree that the banjo got more exposure with Hillbillies, Foggy Mt and Dueling Banjos. I know that I wanted to learn the banjo because of it. But today, Chris Thile with Nickle Creek, along with Compton on the "Brother..." album has brought the mandolin a little more manistream.>

A little, but nothing those folks are doing has anywhere near the exposure those movies and tv show did.

[mitchelwb]

another shot in the arm that could be coming up soon would be The Clark Brothers from the TV show The Next Great American Band. #They featured both mando and dobro and blew the competition away. #I think part of what really drove them to the top was not just the fact that they sounded great and had far more talent than the rest of the bands on the show, but that they did it with instruments that none of the other bands had. #I've not been here on the cafe long enough to know... was there a surge in interest around the time of that show? #Will there be another surge when the Clark Brothers get an album out? #Who here is waiting for it - patiently or not?

[Dave Gumbart]

Well, let's consider popo g's original post. It said: "I came upon this website for a music school...It said 'if you like to play any of these fun instruments...'."

Sounds to me like the school is trying to attract students - perhaps everyday players looking for lessons? So, you need to give someone a reason to say "yeah, I want to do that. That would be fun." And it is, as we can all attest to.

I think the fun reference is more an advertising come-on to prospective students than a statement about the instrument itself. YMMV.

Dave G

[buddyellis]

Lets look at it this way, what do you do when you pick up your mandolin and utilize it?

You are 'playing', are you not? That word has certain implications, whether we as musicians like to admit it or not. This is true of all instruments, mandolin or otherwise.

[TonyP]

I agree with a lot that has been said here. But after 25yrs of being seen with this instrument in my hands, I've decided it's better to be an ambassador than critic of others ignorance.

One of the best things I think we did in our bands was as each player was introduced to the audience, make sure the instrument was mentioned. And like a previous poster said, it's amazing how many people can't tell the sonic difference between banjo and mandolin. I have to admit, I'm more surprised when folks say, "that's a mandolin, right?"

When you talk of popularity, this always comes up. When I don't have the mandolin with me, and someone finds out I'm a musician and ask what I play, and I say mandolin, they almost always say "what's that?" After much trial and error at trying to describe it, the one that ALWAYS works is this. I say, remember in the Disney Lady and the Tramp, and the dogs are eating the spaghetti out in the alley? And remember the little helper guy coming out with an instrument and playing for them? The light always goes on. I find most people are more familiar with a bowlback, than my F5. Maybe it's CA, dunno.

[gnelson651]

Lets look at it this way, what do you do when you pick up your mandolin and utilize it?

You are 'playing', are you not? #That word has certain implications, whether we as musicians like to admit it or not. #This is true of all instruments, mandolin or otherwise.

Kind of like baseball...

You hear at the beginning of a game the umpire yell "Play Ball"

... not "Work Ball"

[JeffD]

It has been my experience, here on the East Coast of the US, that to the general public the bowlback is the iconic mandolin. And, to most people, the most interesting thing about the bowlback is "what it might be worth". Like they are all rare relics.

I had the experience of a friend of mine selling a bowlback mandolin to a set designer for a television studeo in New York City. He sold it for about two and a half times what it would be worth to a player. And at that the set designer thought he was getting a great deal.

Any other style of mandolin is a "huh?" to the general public.

But hey, if we were worried about popular culture we wouldn't even PLAY music - as most people feel music is something you download and listen to. Not something you could possibly participate in.

Nobody was jealous of me joining the high school band, and when I took up the mandolin it was said, "you really don't want any friends, do you."

So lets embrace our inner nerd, and get back to practicing those pentatonic scales.