Post a picture opost a picture of your fake gibson

**wantaloar** · Jan-02-2008, 7:53pm

Here is a full frontal view of the mandolin that I showed earlier. Seller stated it was a 1927 Gibson F5 "Fern", He also stated that the following items had been changed by him since he owned it in the early 1970's
-Fret board replaced
-Bridge replaced
-Pickguard replaced
Truss Rod cover replaced
Other than those mentioned above most people would be fooled upon first glance that it was not a real Gibson. The difference with this one compared to the others shown, is that this was being passed off as the real deal.

**wantaloar** · Jan-02-2008, 7:53pm

Here is the Back

**jim simpson** · Jan-02-2008, 9:08pm

Back when I owned the Chris Warner that I posted in this thread, I was playing it at a jam at Sunset Park (West Grove, PA - r.i.p.). A fellow with a 70's era Gibson looked at mine and stated "now there's a real Gibson". He was surprised and I think bummed when he realized that the Warner was not Gibson. He was not happy with his Gibson.

**Rocky Top** · Jan-02-2008, 10:30pm

Originally Posted by (mrmando @ Jan. 02 2008, 16:47)

Here's a Gibson copy that wasn't very good ... but even Gibson thought it was a Gibson!

I saw that on ebay earlier today and was puzzled by the Nouveau name on the headstock, but Gibson on the diamond shaped inlay. I Goggled Noveau and found this- http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews....1 . Now in this article, it's talking about a guitar, but I figure that the Nouveau mandos probably have the same basic story.

**Bill Snyder** · Jan-02-2008, 10:32pm

There have been several previous threads on Nouveau mandolins. They were a Gibson offering several years ago. I do not recall any positive reviews given of them on any of the old threads I read.

**Salty Dog** · Jan-02-2008, 10:53pm

This thread reminds me of a book I read a number of years ago by a fellow who billed himself as "The Furniture Doctor" - I think he also had a newspaper column. #From memory, he was an antique furniture expert particularly expert on antique chairs. #On the side, he was quite expert also at faking antique chairs. #He claimed his greatest dilemma was the few occasions that he (as an expert) was asked (probably paid) to authenticate one of his own fakes. #Should he show his expertise by identifying it as a fake or promote his expertise by authentication? #He claimed one of his chairs was still in the Ford museum at the time he wrote the book (not necessarily one he authenticated). #My point is that there might be fakers out there who are good enough to fool the experts, but to do so might require being recognized as an expert; possibly being asked to authenticate their own work.

**Spruce** · Jan-03-2008, 11:10am

"My point is that there might be fakers out there who are good enough to fool the experts, but to do so might require being recognized as an expert; possibly being asked to authenticate their own work. "

Loars ain't chairs or guitars or even violins, for that matter....
It's an extremely difficult object to fake, although threads like this one will be invaluable to anyone who might want to tackle it in the future.... #

I'll go out on a limb here and say that there is not a single fake "Loar" floating around out there that is masquerading as the real deal....
Which is more that you can say about some "fine" "old" Italian violins that are kicking around out there....
Or Strats. #Or Les Pauls. #Or chairs....

And, in 100 years, when you run into a Gibson MM or DMM with fake labels and 100 years of wear on it, it wouldn't pass muster either, despite their claims that they are "virtually indistinguishable from an original." #(Their words, not mine)....
The list of neglected "tells" is pretty long.....

**wantaloar** · Jan-03-2008, 12:06pm

Charlie told me at Loar Fest 06 that Gibson puts security features within the construction of the Distressed MM so it would never be passed off as a real Loar. I dont know if they are in all master models or just the distressed, maybe Big Joe can help with this one.

**Spruce** · Jan-03-2008, 12:29pm

"Charlie told me at Loar Fest 06 #that Gibson puts security features within the construction of the Distressed MM so it would never be passed off as a real Loar."

Yep...

But I was referring to the build details, and how hard they are to replicate....
Points, buttons, F-holes, scroll, inlays, etc.

**jasona** · Jan-03-2008, 12:37pm

On this topic, do all Loars have all of the hallmarks of Loars? In other words, what is the degree of acceptable variability on allows when judging a Loar to be legit?

**f5loar** · Jan-03-2008, 2:10pm

yes,some of the time, maybe, not always, more than likely,within certain limits,near likeness,sure,no.
Does that answer the question?

**Spruce** · Jan-03-2008, 2:56pm

Yes....

**JEStanek** · Jan-03-2008, 3:29pm

DMM Lowjack? Bluetooth trussrod?

I'm interested in how much Loar makes it a Loar. At what point of diminishing originality does a Loar lose its luster? Refinish, hardware, binding/points, fingerboard/frets or neck, baked in an oven- rebuilt after smashing... I would imagine still a Loar! What if it is rebacked or topped? Maybe the top is more critical?

I suppose as there is a continuum of changes to originality there would be a similar continuum in price the instrument could capture and they all still be called Loar... I guess you really need that signed label in there at least...

Jamie

**Mark Walker** · Jan-03-2008, 4:20pm

Originally Posted by (wantaloar @ Jan. 03 2008, 13:06)

Charlie told me at Loar Fest 06 #that Gibson puts security features within the construction of the Distressed MM so it would never be passed off as a real Loar. #I dont know if they are in all master models or just the distressed, maybe Big Joe can help with this one.

I doubt too much should be revealed - lest it allow those crafting 'replicas' to embed said 'security' features into the fakes! #But it would be interesting to know if those 'security' features were in all Gibsons or just certain ones.

Interesting thread though. #I thought the sequence of 'real vs. fake' photos in the previous pages (thanks to 'wantaloar') were very beneficial. #I had no idea about those little 'details' which differentiate the 'real Gibsons' from the 'faux' versions. #(Not that I'm looking for either - but interesting nonetheless!)

Thanks to all the folks posting on this topic! #

**Spruce** · Jan-03-2008, 4:47pm

"I doubt too much should be revealed - lest it allow those crafting 'replicas' to embed said 'security' features into the fakes!"

Some violin makers are imbedding metal "signiture" tags in the blocks on their fiddles that will show up on x-ray...

It's still going to be a mess sorting things out in 150 years or so in the violin world...

Much more of a challenge than it will be sorting out the real F5s from the fakes...
(As of now, anyway... #

#)

**Desert Rose** · Jan-03-2008, 9:48pm

The security feature used is a computer micro chip

Gibson is not the only maker using this

Scott

**Big Joe** · Jan-03-2008, 10:47pm

Actually Gibson did not use a micro chip in the MM or DMM. It is the details in the build that you do not see that will be the tells. An Xray will quickly reveal the real from the MM or DMM. No need for any micro chip.

Most experts can tell the difference from the MM or DMM and the original Loar without having to do an xray, but there are a couple DMM's that have fooled some experts. Hope this helps.

**jasona** · Jan-03-2008, 11:17pm

Originally Posted by (Big Joe @ Jan. 03 2008, 21:47)

An Xray will quickly reveal the real from the MM or DMM. No need for any micro chip.

Like this?

**Spruce** · Jan-04-2008, 12:00pm

"....but there are a couple DMM's that have fooled some experts."

Well, there are "experts" and then there are "experts"...

For instance, in the violin world, there are really only 2-3 "go-to" shops for authenticating a violin....
Charles Beare in London being one of them....

So-ooo, there are probably only a few folks I'd trust with authenticating a Loar, and some of them hang out around here...
A few good close-up shots of certain areas on the instrument-in-question posted here would go a long way to telling whether it's real or not. #
Which is what this thread is all about, I guess.... # #

**Spruce** · Jan-04-2008, 12:02pm

Originally Posted by (jasona @ Jan. 03 2008, 21:17)

Originally Posted by (Big Joe @ Jan. 03 2008, 21:47)

An Xray will quickly reveal the real from the MM or DMM. #No need for any micro chip.

Like this?

Whaddoya got, a lead pickguard on that thing??

**jasona** · Jan-04-2008, 12:56pm

Originally Posted by (Spruce @ Jan. 04 2008, 11:02)

Originally Posted by (jasona @ Jan. 03 2008, 21:17)

Originally Posted by (Big Joe @ Jan. 03 2008, 21:47)

An Xray will quickly reveal the real from the MM or DMM. No need for any micro chip.

Like this?

Whaddoya got, a lead pickguard on that thing??

I've always heard it said that mass adds to tone...

**Gutbucket** · Jan-05-2008, 10:21am

Here's my Mandolin. Inspired by Mr Monroe. I named it "Rawhide".

**Gutbucket** · Jan-05-2008, 10:24am

Here's the Headstock. Sorry about the bad flash.

**Kip Welty** · Jan-05-2008, 6:51pm

anyone ever see a lefty fake ?

**Stephanie Reiser** · Jan-06-2008, 6:30am

Gutbucket, interesting mandolin you have there. I think that even a novice such and I can tell it isn't a loar, but who cares. I'm sure you enjoy it very much.
Question, though: Is it at all possible that your nut is on backwards?