Sound...i don't get it

[leathermarshmallow]

I am new here and new to the mandolin. I hope to learn a lot more and to become somewhat of a decent musician. My question is this: What can I do to "hear" all of the differences that I read about you all hearing. Granted, some mandolins sound some different, but I cannot hear the difference that strings make, or other subtle changes can make. What am I to do???

[arbarnhart]

Play, listen, play, liste...

Repeat as necessary.

Some of us will never hear some of the subtelties, but listening to some really good playing (the MP3 page here is a good place to start) will help.

[earthsave]

I equate it to wine and spirits drinkers, or cigar and pipe smokers. Some people can write a poem about what they taste and the subtleties of it. Others like are more limited to Yuck, Yumm, or ok.

The more experience you have the bigger your vocabulary. Like learning and improving, it just takes time and dedication.

[sean808080]

I am new here and new to the mandolin. #I hope to learn a lot more and to become somewhat of a decent musician. #My question is this: #What can I do to "hear" all of the differences that I read about you all hearing. #Granted, some mandolins sound some different, but I cannot hear the difference that strings make, or other subtle changes can make. #What am I to do???

another approach is not only to listen to the sounds but to try to recreate them. sometimes the act of producing the sound or something similar helps you arrive at what it is you're really hearing.

hope that helps!

[allenhopkins]

Are there bluegrass, Celtic, old-time jams in your neck of the woods? If so, go and keep your ears open. Bring your own axe and compare it side-by-side with others'. If there's an instrument dealer around with a selection of mandolins, no matter how limited, visit him/her and try some out.

While I agree that listening to recordings is very helpful, the recording process does interpose between the acoustic "natural" sound of the instrument, and what you hear. And there is clearly no substitute for having the actual instrument in your hands, and discovering how it responds to your particular style and technique.

However, few of us are fortunate enough to have access to a wide spectrum of brands and models. I'm lucky enough to be able to go down to Bernunzio's or Stutzman's, pull an instrument off the wall, and try it against five or ten other mandolins. But even trying some mall store's limited collection of Fenders or Rovers will teach you something.

And take a tip from my (bad) example: just because you like them, doesn't mean you have to buy all of them.

[hoffmannia2k7]

I think different people hear and care about subtle differences more than others. If you find those subtle differences immensely important as you learn more about mandolin then by all means explore them.

All mandolins, even of the same make and model sound different and you will find different strings sound incredibly different. You will learn what you like. I say try different strings until you find one you like and then appreciate the goodness of that set, but for me it is not of utmost importance. I play D'Addario's, I don't even know what model I usually get as most local music stores only carry one model. I know that I really dislike Martin mandolin strings. There have been instances though where I try a different make because a store I visit only carries a certain brand. Then again I cahnge strings once every two or three months. You may be different. Some folks change strings bi-weekly or even sometimes more.

There are many mandolin players I love and admire that play normal mid-range instruments but their own sound is unique and beautiful and that is really all that I believe we can do. I think the player is much much more important than the instrument. Have you ever been in a sports care with a jerky, uncomfortable driver? Wouldn't you much rather be in a used kia with a very comfortable driver? Metaphors don't always make so much sense, but that is my two bits.

[MikeEdgerton]

Don't look at this as a problem, see it as the blessing it is. If you can't hear the difference then there's no reason to buy a more expensive mandolin or new strings. That in itself will save you a fortune.



As time goes by you'll hear the things that you find pleasing. That's what really matters.

[BigNick]

I'm only a week into mandolin myself but I used to attend Bluegrass festivals to get dobro pointers. Watching jams, even if you aren't into that kind of music is really the best way to figure all this out. You can watch, listen, and ask the pickers questions later. You can definitely tell the difference between someone who has good mando tone and someone who does not. To me, one way to tell the difference in jams is by listening to mandolin players play chop chords. Whenever I hear a really solid chop chord within the mix of pickers...I can tell that the mando and player have that "sound" and volume.

You will hear people refer to a mandolin's "bark" a lot too. It also helps to listen to as much music featuring the mandolin as possible, then you can research the players you hear.

[JHo]

You could certainly try some different picks, different brands, materials, thicknesses. I'd be willing to bet you'll hear/notice some significant differences there. Same goes for strings, you could try something more significantly different and I bet you'll notice the difference. I do think that when you stumble across that which you really like or that which really suits you (be it picks, strings, instruments, whatever), you'll know it in an instant.

I'm not saying to not be content with your setup as it is and go changing things (unless you're inclined to do so), but I've found personally that this kind of experimentation really helped me to figure out what I like and don't like, and made me more aware of the ways in which strings, picks, etc. differ.

[Mandolusional]

I'd say that it just takes time. Right now I can hear tonal range and differences I didn't when I started a year and a half ago. I think this site has helped because can read descriptions of sound and tone here, and that helps lay the foundation for what my ear is trying to translate.

I remember thinking my Johnson A was decent when I started, until I went to my first private lesson and was floored by the deep woody and dry tone my instructor had. Then I went to my first festival in Feb. saw so many acts, including John Reischman, and I realize not only does the mandolin tone very, but it does so because of how it is played, etc. A lot of these things we "know" but it takes really "hands on" experience to put it together. I'm sure some people just naturally "get it" more than others, but based on my experience I'd say it just takes time and a lot of listening and your ear will start to sort it out and determine your personal preferences along the way.

[Red Henry]

Play all the mandolins you can. Apparently that's the way to hear the differences best, because listening to them (or to recordings of them) probably cannot pick up nearly as much of each instrument's character.

Just listening may not reveal much, except when there is a really large difference between instruments. There was a famous experiment where well-known violinists performed on master violins behind a screen, and a panel of experts were to identify the violins being played from a list. The judges' results did not agree with the instruments being played, nor with each other! -- so hold that instrument in your hands and play it.

[Jkf_Alone]

a lot of it has to do with right technique (if you are talking about playing instruments and not noticing differences in them). when i first started playing every mandolin/string/setup sounded the same, like a little, high strung guitar. when you learn to hit the strings right, at the right angle and with the right pick, each mandolin/string combination sounds quite different.

if you are talking about other mandolin players tone, then just listen to more music. Mike Compton sounds much different than Chris Thile, and David Grisman sounds different than Bill Monroe.

* REMEMBER: you should always listen twice as much as you play.

[jmcgann]

A very large part of whatever tone is in a given instrument is dependent on a living, breathing human to extract it.

In other words, get a decent mandolin in playable shape and spend a few years learning how to play it. You'll hear the differences in how instruments sound eventually- but unless you want to be a non-playing collector, don't worry about it.

Focus on the important stuff, like the hands and your musicianship.It's much harder work than reading other's opinions of mandolin sound, but the payoff is much larger.

[billkilpatrick]

right or wrong - i went after a sound - a tonality and i played it continuously. then i heard something else i liked and went after it. now i have two tones to please me ...

... and three mandolins to bind me - sounds like "lord of the rings."

[otterly2k]

one Loar to rule them all... one Loar to bind them....

[steve in tampa]

Look to create and define "your"sound. You know when you make it, 'cause it makes you happy to hear it and feel it!

[mandroid]

Writing about Music is like Dancing about Architecture,

As was said somewhere before.

[allenhopkins]

Writing about Music is like Dancing about Architecture,

As was said somewhere before.

Yet we persist, don't we?

[Perry]

but I cannot hear the difference that strings make, or other subtle changes can make.

Once I got some decent mandos I stopped "tinkering" with them. When I had a $1,000 mando (yeah that's a cheapo) I was constantly swapping out all types of different picks, tailpieces etc. trying to get it sound like something.

Once I got a nice mando I stopped with all that.
So I think when you have a good mandolin the fundamental tone is always there no matter what the variables.I know others will disagree

Mandos sound different from one another of course but those little things don't matter so much and as someone pointed out it's mostly the player extracting the tone anyhow.

Heck I can even make my nice mandos sound bad

[JHo]

What's wrong with dancing about architecture anyway? Different strokes for different folks.

[Santiago]

Some of us will never hear some of the subtelties,

... and SOME of them were never there to begin with.

[JEStanek]

I wonder if it isn't like coloring. When we're little we start off with a box of 4 or 8 Crayons. Then we move to 16, then 64 then 128 as we discover the nuances between blue-green, green-blue, and cornflower. Tone and sound differences we can hear may be a thing we develop similarly with experience with our instruments.

What's cool is you can make interesting art with 4 Crayons or with 128. Same thing with inexpensive and very expensive instruments.

Enjoy the ride. Playing doesn't have to be a destination. It can be a process.

Jamie

[Tim2723]

I take the rather unpopular road of pragmatism. I play cheap mandolins, but I also smoke Winstons and drink Schaefer beer. I have a friend with an expensive, high-end mando that plays like the voice of an angel, but I'd never take that into a bar. In fifteen years and 2000 paid performances not one person has ever complained about the tone of my instrument. They stagger up and say "You guys RULE, dude!".

I make enough money playing the mandolin on weekends that I could justify nearly anything I want, but I don't want it. Not one club owner has ever given me an extra dime because of the tone, value, rarity, or status of my mandolin. With every upgrade I've always been the only one to pay for it.